Lord, we welcome you here tonight. We welcome you here not only for this night,
we welcome you for everything that we're going to be covering in the next weeks
and few months. We're asking that by your spirit, what needs to be said is said.
What does not need to be said will not be brought up, but only the things that
you want to take place and you want to have imparted and you want to have
done will be done and said and and we will activate and flow in and do whatever
you want done in Jesus' name and we forbid anything else. In Jesus' name. Amen.
Amen. You can be seated. Well, we're starting a class or series on something
that been on my heart for a couple of years. I knew it was coming and this year
it just felt like I told Mary said I just have to do this and it's going to be
done. I have I've done this once before. Oh, what was it 15 years ago? Something
like that and it's going to come out totally different this time. He wants
different things emphasized and obviously in 15 years, hopefully you
learn something. So it'll be nice to have the house lights up because we will
have questions and answers at some point and gives people enough light to
write things down and so forth. But let's start with the name. Doesn't that
seem like an odd name for a spirit for talking about demons? Infestation and
manifestation. Infestation, here's the definition to it. To spread or swarm in
or over in a troublesome manner, to live in or on as a parasite. That's
exactly what demons do. Especially with Christians, but non-Christians
it's the same thing. They're not supposed to be living with us or on us or in us.
They're their life suckers. They're the guy who mentored me in this or
predominantly. He did the predominant mentoring in this. I'll be referring to
him numerous times. He said they're like squatters or trespassers. They have no
right to be there most of the time. Sometimes they do and you have to take
the right away. But they just move in and they won't go out until you kick
them out. That's why I call it an infestation. Years ago, someone asked,
well, do you actually believe Christians can have a demon? Do you want one?
Why would you ask if you can have one? These are not pets. I went to a
minister's conference in 1980 that really kind of set the course of life
for me. And he addressed the subject this way. He said, we shouldn't be
asking the question like I asked it. Can we have one? The question that
should be asked is, can a demon have a Christian?
And approach it from that direction. But once they infest, and if they
are infesting, then they will try to manifest. And that can be done
in many, many different ways. Of course, Webster says and manifestation is
the actor process or an instance of manifesting something that manifests
outward, visible expression, one of the forms in which an individual is
manifested. Another letter D there, occult phenomenon, specifically
materialization. All kinds of things can take place when they
manifest and they will try to manifest. And we will start
probably next week with what is a demon and where did they come from
and why do they want to get in you and me?
That will help answer the question of manifestation and what that's all
about. But they're going to try to infest or get on us like a
parasite and then they're going to try to live through us.
That's where the name comes from. And like it said on that first
slide tonight, predominantly I'm going to give my story, which I've
never given before. This is one of the new things that will take
place. I've given bits and pieces of it, but I'm going to give
kind of an overview tonight. And I have many, many things I could
cover. And since it's so easy to hit so many rabbit trails,
I put a lot of notes down to try to hold me to the notes
so that I wouldn't just splinter here, there and everywhere
and we get done tonight. And it's like, well, I didn't even get
halfway done with what I was trying to say. So I'm trying to
hold myself in track. And it's my story. And I wrote a lot of
notes. So if you're saying, well, it's your story, why are you
reading so much? To keep me on track. Because as I'm sharing,
my mind will go all kinds of different directions of different
experiences and things. And I don't want to have the liberty
of shooting off into them unless I really know what's
got. We'll shoot off into them other nights. But
there's basic things I need to cover in this, how would you
say, series or session of classes. And people have been
asking, well, how long is this going to go on? That is
largely dependent on you. I have some basic things that I
know he told me you have to cover these things.
Beyond that, we can just go deeper and deeper and deeper
if you stay interested. And you keep coming. Now I know some of
you are joining us by live streaming. That's fine. I
appreciate that. But it's always better to be in person
and questions and answers. It's going to be hard for you
to participate with that on live stream. So if you're in
the area and you can come, please do so. But I say all
that to say, we can be done in six weeks with the
things that I feel God's given me that have to be
covered. Or we can go through most of the winter and
just peel layer after layer after layer after layer
off of this. So it's going to be kind of up to you. If
you start getting bored, let me know. And we'll wind
her up. If you want more, let me know. And we'll
keep talking. It becomes, if it becomes more mature
mentally, like, oh man, got that class I got to
go to again tonight. I wish you would get over
with. Then we'll just wrap it up. But my plan is to
teach about an hour most nights. Tonight's going to
be longer because I'm trying to give as much of my
story as I can in this session. But most of the
nights it'll be an hour. We'll go from like seven
to eight and then we'll open up for questions and
answers. And however long that goes, if that
goes for a half an hour, 45 minutes, whatever,
we'll do that. The teaching part will be
live stream. So you can enjoy that part. The
question and answers, we're not going to
live stream. If there's questions that come up
and usually there are that are pertinent, then
we will edit them and put them with that
particular session. And you'll have to catch
them later if you're watching by live stream.
But we're not going to do live streaming on the
questions and answers. And tonight we may not
have much time for questions and answers
because I'm probably going to be a little
bit long-winded. If you are live streaming
and you get a question, feel free to
text it in or email it in. And there's the
email address and the text number. And
that doesn't mean we're going to hit it
immediately. But hopefully we can hit it
and and because I know we've got some
people from out of state who are
watching and that might pick up as the
weeks go on. So we'll bring that up
from time to time and say we're not
trying to exclude you. Put your
questions in. We'll see if we can
answer them. There's two main
objectives we have for the class.
Here's our goal. Number one, to help you
become familiar with this side of the
spirit realm. This side meaning the
demonic side. Paul said we are not
unaware of Satan's devices and schemes
so that we can recognize what he's
doing is my translation of that. We
are supposed to have some knowledge
of how the dark side operates. And our
goal is to bring some of that and
bring some solid scriptural
understanding to it. For various
reasons this subject tends to get very
weird in Christians and Christian
realm. I think it's because there's
usually so much fear attached to it or
tied to it. The average Christian is
afraid of demons and that's why it
gets weird. So hopefully we can
dispel that because fear is not of
God. So there's the first thing. The
second thing we're after is to help
prepare you to be able to do
deliverance when the situation arises.
Most believers never cast out a demon
in their whole lifetime. They never
cast out a demon and there's various
reasons for that. They don't
recognize them. They're afraid of them
whatever. But it's like everything
else in God's kingdom. Deliverance
there's rules to the road. If you
know healing is for us. We get it
by faith. Or just pray for someone
and they'll be healed. Well sometimes
that it's that easy. You just pray for
somebody and they're healed. And other
times you pray for them and nothing
happens. And you have to learn some
things. And you have to grow in some
things. And the Holy Spirit has to
show you some revelation. Teach you
some things then you pray for them
and they're healed.
What's the same thing with
deliverance? Well just cast them out.
Well sometimes they don't go.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they
don't. When you hit an obstacle and
they don't go. Don't throw your hands on
the air and walk away and say oh
I must not be God. No it's it's you're
my people perish for lack of
knowledge. There's something the Holy
Spirit needs to teach you. And show
you and grow you in. And then in
Jesus name it'll work. So you know
there's some rules to the road. There
are some growing. And hopefully the
second objective is to help you to
be able to be somewhat prepared
for when your turn comes. Because they
that believe.
One of the things that says in Mark 16
they that believe will cast out
demons. Every believer is supposed to
do this.
Deliverance in others and self
deliverance. Recognize when you have
a problem and get rid of it. You
don't need anybody's help to do it
most of the time.
We'll differentiate that as time goes
on. But that's the objective.
This subject does not have a lot of
how-to teaching in Scripture. But then
neither do a lot of them.
Does the gifts of the Spirit have a
how-to manual that goes with it?
No.
You have to learn as you go. And I
think it falls under this principle
what Jesus was talking about. He says
I still have many things to say to you
but you're not able to bear them or
take them upon you or grasp them now.
I mean you can only absorb so much so
fast.
But when he the Spirit of Truth, the
truth-giving Spirit comes, he will
guide you into all truth, the whole
truth, the full truth, and he will
teach you. This is one of the things
along with many others in Scripture.
He teaches us as we go.
In reality that's how almost
everything in the New Testament works
when he's trying to get something
across to us.
How do you live an overcoming life?
You learn as you go.
And you just keep gaining revelation
and insight. And it's that way with
all areas. It'd be nice if there'd
be a chapter you could read and do it
and you'd be an overcomer in every
year of your life.
Doesn't work that way. It's here a
little, there a little piece at a
time.
And this is one of the things he
teaches us as we go.
Here is
the foundation in a nutshell of
deliverance.
Submit to God, resist the devil, and
he will flee.
That is it in a nutshell. That's the
whole thing. It's that easy.
It's not hard. It's that easy. The
application can be different in
different situations, but it's
always going to come back to that
principle.
It is extremely difficult to get
someone set free
who is not saved.
They're not submitted to God.
Because you can kick them out, but
since there is no Holy Spirit
there in the temple to help guard the
temple,
they just turn around and come right
back in.
There has to be a submission to God.
Then you can resist and kick them
out and make some progress.
But no matter what the application
is,
that is the basic principle.
Something that does help us learn how
to apply that
is to hear what other people have
done
and to watch. See, that's where the
disciples had an advantage on us.
They watched Jesus do this.
So he didn't have to give them a whole
lot of teaching about it. He just had
to give them some basics because
they watched him in action on
probably a daily basis
dealing with this stuff.
So they had an advantage there.
But we can hear things. We can
we can see things that other people
have gone through.
And just remember, as we hear that,
he is never going to use you exactly
the same as anybody else.
Never.
Anything God does through you is going
to be a little bit different than
everybody else.
God is not into building
one, two, three homes
and as the model homes and then the
next thousand homes that are built in
this development are you can pick
out of one of these three and they're
all the same.
God builds everything custom.
There's no two flowers the same.
There's no two snowflakes the same.
There's no two fingerprints the same.
There's no two eye scans the same.
Why would he have a rubber-stamped
way of doing things through all these
people who are all different?
He doesn't. He's going to do it a
little different through you and you
got to be ready for that.
You know, I had someone ask me,
we were talking about God working and
I brought up the phrase,
when you see that, you're seeing the
fingerprint of God.
On what's happening there, you're
seeing the fingerprint of God on that.
And they say, what do you mean by the
fingerprint of God? I said there's a
few things I look for when I'm
looking for if this is God or not.
One of them is this. What they're
doing
is it different than anything else
I've seen?
Because if it's cookie cutter,
they learned it in a class, they're
pulling out their book
and they're doing it line by line.
Well, you may start there,
but two, three, four years into it,
you won't need that book anymore
because he's going to take in you a
little different direction. He's
going to use you a little
different way.
He is going to customize how he
uses you.
So one thing I look for when I'm
looking for the fingerprint of God
is
I don't want to have ever seen this
just like this in the other place.
Now religion is the opposite.
We try to duplicate something we've
seen.
That's how they do it, so we're going
to do it, and then God will do the
same thing. God doesn't show up
because it's not about the method.
It's about what he showed the
person.
So he's going to do it a little
differently with you, and there's
some foundational things that we
have to cover and we have to lay
down, like for instance,
when it comes to demons, you speak
to them.
You command them
to go.
You never ask Jesus to do it
because he won't.
And there are so many Christians
that I hear praying for someone who
is struggling with some kind of
oppression or torment or demonic
thing.
Oh, God just set them free. Oh, Jesus
just set them free. You are
wasting your time.
It doesn't work that way.
So there are some basic things
that we have to establish. That
scripture is extremely clear on.
And then beyond that we can build.
But once we're started, you know,
the Spirit seems to teach
everybody a little differently and
that's okay.
I learned a very large lesson in
this whole thing that I'll share
at the end of the evening.
I have a rather strange story of how
I was taught deliverance.
I didn't like how I was taught.
I'm still not sure why God chose to
teach me the way he did.
I have some ideas, but I'm not sure
I see really the reason.
But because he taught me a certain
way, it colors and flavors
everything of how I approach the
demonic realm and praying with
people and
dealing with demonic stuff.
It flavors everything. So I can't go
through.
It's there. Well, I could, I suppose,
just leave all my experiences out.
But it's very difficult for me to
give illustrations of,
okay, you need to speak to the
Spirit.
Well, now I'll give you two, three
stories of that.
Well, that's going to...
Some of those stories are going to
seem really strange.
And that's going to be for the
whole time we're talking about this.
Because the way he taught me was
rather strange
from my perspective.
And there's a bunch of stuff I'm
going to share that I've never
really shared before
in these classes.
And there's a whole bunch of stuff
that I'm not going to share.
Because I'm not supposed to share it.
So if you hit one of those things
and you ask a question about it
and I say, yeah, that's happened,
but I can't talk about it.
Don't be offended.
It's not for now. Maybe it's for a
different time, different class,
whatever.
But two things are paramount when
you're dealing with demons or fallen
angels and they are different.
E, in my perspective, they're
different. And there's debate on
that, but we'll go into that
starting next week.
Even if the deliverance doesn't
go the way it's supposed to,
two things are paramount. You
have to know, you have to know,
you have to stand on. A Satan's
power and authority has been
completely removed and destroyed
against believers, not necessarily
against non-believers, but
against believers. And the power
of sin has been completely
removed and canceled against
believers as long for those of us
who are under grace.
Paul makes that, he flat out
almost says that word for word.
He says, sin shall have no
power over you because you are
not under law under, but you're
under grace. So for under grace,
sin has no power over us
whatsoever.
Those two are paramount in dealing
with demons because the only reason
demons have right to a human
temple is sin. It is the only
reason. And we'll talk about that as
it goes on. Let's go to my story
and get rolling, or we won't get
done with that tonight either.
I was born in a Christian family.
I was raised in a Protestant church.
I was assembly of God, to be
exact.
We believe the full gospel. In
other words, that all the Bible
pertained to today.
And that was a good thing
because it gave me an exposure to
things that at least
doctrinally I understood. Yeah,
there's demons and demons need to
be cast out. So that was a good
thing.
However, the church I grew up in,
we believed it, but a lot of what
we believed was never practiced.
It just never, we believed it, but
it never happened like
casting out demons.
In relation to demons,
the teaching of the denomination
which came through the church and I
knew it was, I thought it was just
our church to begin with, but I knew
it was denomination when I
went out ministering
because I became assembly of God
minister and that's how I started in
the ministry. And when I went out
ministering different churches, they
all believed the same thing. So this
is a denominational thing.
Number one, there was three things
that stood out to me. Number one,
we absolutely have the ability to
cast out demons and there are such a
thing as demons that need to be
cast out.
So that's good. It's positive to have
that knowledge because there's
Christians who actually don't
believe that.
And it's hard to help someone with a
problem they have if you don't
believe the problem even exists.
Number two, when demons were
brought up and talked about
the the teaching or the stories
whatever little bit there was would
generally dwell on negative stuff.
Be careful.
You can really get messed up.
Things can go bad very quickly.
Be careful. It was very fear-based.
Watch out. If you can stay out of
that whole realm, it'd be better if
you stayed out of it.
Yeah, but that's not what the Bible says.
The Bible says the opposite. Go chase
them. Chase them right down through
the gates of hell. You know, before
they get a chance to close the big
doors,
you're in there.
And the gates of hell will not prevail
against you.
Go rip them right out of their own
sanctuary.
But the thought was, no, you got to
be really careful and usually the
main story that came up is the
seven sons of Sceva.
You know, the seven sons of Sceva tried
casting a demon out and it whooped
them and stripped their clothes off.
They weren't running out of the house
naked.
Yeah, and they were unsaved.
Does that make a difference?
They didn't have the spirit of God in
them.
And there were horror stories that I
had heard basically based on
experiences that
at some time people supposedly had,
you know,
we saw we were at a service where
a demon came out of one person and it
went into the other and they started
freaking out.
No, what happened is
when the other demons saw what happened
to this demon, that demon started
freaking out.
Because they were afraid it was going to
happen to them next.
But they were sitting in the back
watching this and this one got cast
out and this one lit up over here
and it's like, oh, it went into that
one.
You can never cast a demon out in a
church service.
Well, you should have told Jesus that.
Because evidently he was not aware of
that rule.
Demons are very strong, you know, seven
sons of Sceva.
I know a situation where seven men
couldn't hold them down and it wasn't
the sons of Sceva.
And they just ripped them up like
that,
that demon that had legion that Jesus
dealt with.
They just ripped everything up.
Yeah, Jesus came along fixed it
didn't he?
And greater works than these will you
do.
So let's quit dwelling on, oh, he
broke chains and just ripped
everything up.
And let's start dwelling on, he was
sitting there in his right mind
asking Jesus, can I follow you?
You know, which side of the story are
we going to look at?
So as a result of that, growing up
under that, a lot of fear was built
around it.
And the knowledge, we can cast them
out.
It was viewed as possible.
It was a holy thing.
But it's better to leave it alone.
Don't do it.
I don't ever recall ever being given
the message, go get them.
Here's what they are.
Here's what they do.
Go render that kingdom.
Go get them.
Never.
It's like stay away and hope they
never get after you.
So you were always kind of a little
bit freaked out.
So that was number two.
And then number three,
Christians can't have demons.
That I think is still pretty much a
basis of what the denomination
believes.
When I was in it, that's what they
believed.
You can't have demons as a Christian.
Once you're saved, you can't have
demons.
So you don't have to worry about
anything or be afraid.
So it was not a subject we spent
much time on because if we just get
people saved, then it took care of
all that.
And they can't have demons anyway.
So even though I was given a
doctrinal position on it, I
wasn't really prepared to do much in
that realm.
And that fear-based thing that was
imparted, that hindered me quite a bit
to begin with when I started having to
deal with it.
So let me give you my first
encounter with the demonic side of
things.
I'll go with what happened to me when
I was a young person and then I'll go
to the ministry thing and
just kind of, I'll take some time on
the ministry thing one.
My first encounter with the demonic
side or the demonic realm, I was 15
years old. I was between a
freshman and sophomore in high school.
It was that summer.
And at a different time, we won't get
done if I dwell too much here tonight.
So at a different time, if you want to
talk about the details about that, we
can if you're interested.
But a long story made short is I
saw the reaper and the reaper was
after me and he was trying to kill me.
And he looks just like they draw him.
Tall, skinny, hooded, can't see the
face. All you see is the glowing
eyes, very long fingers, and he tries
to grab you.
And he wasn't able to get a hold of me.
He wasn't able to kill me.
However, that encounter freaked me out
as a young person.
From that point forward, something
snapped, so to speak, inside of me.
And I knew this whole Christian life
thing is very, very serious business.
This is not a game.
This is not something to take lightly.
This is life or death.
And if you end up on the wrong side,
it will be death and it will be eternal
death.
And that's where it started.
And over the years, I've been
accused of, you're so serious.
I mean, everything is so serious.
It's like life or death.
Yeah, that's where it started right
there.
That night, when it was life or death,
and God showed me the side of the
spirit realm, that side of the spirit
realm of what was happening, and I
had that encounter.
That seemed to open something up in
me.
I began having a number of supernatural
experiences. I had some visions, some
knowings.
I didn't understand them. Nobody really
had any insight for them. Again, I was
raised in a denomination that believed
in them,
but I couldn't find anybody to explain
a vision to me or how to understand
it.
They... nobody did it.
Dreams were... we believed that were
dreams were from God because it said
in Acts 2.
But they were almost made fun of.
You gotta watch dreams because, yeah, you
can get really, you know.
But I started dreaming, started really
kicking in with me visions. I had some
knowings. I didn't know what to do with
them.
And one thing that came out of that
night is I knew the day would come. I
would cast out demons.
It's just like Paul talks about an
Ephesians of having a knowledge that
passes knowledge. In other words, you
can't understand it with your head,
but something God drops down into
your spirit.
And you just know, even though you
probably have trouble explaining it,
but you know it.
That's how it was. I just knew.
In some ways that freaked me out
because it'll prepared.
In other ways it was kind of like, well,
this will be exciting. We'll see what
happens.
But that's when living for God as a
Christian
became very serious to me.
That's where it started.
So I went through high school and
college and there were a few other
you know specific demonic type of
encounters.
I don't think anything worthy of talking
about tonight. It's
it was there. There was an ever-growing
or increasing awareness
of the demonic realm around me. I
just knew
certain things were present and I just
knew when certain things happened
that was not a coincidence. That was
demonic. It just there was a growing
kind of like insight. I just knew. It
just started growing in me through
high school and college. And out of
college I was married, went into the
ministry as an assistant or youth
pastor.
All was well for about six to eight
months and then I had my first
demonic encounter. The first time
I ever had cast out a demon was
right here.
So this story I'm going to go kind of
slow on because this was kind of a
precedent
that showed up later. So a girl from the
church who attended our youth group
from time to time.
She was very good friends with one of
the girls in the youth group and
she started having some weird things
happening to her and she was
sharing with her friend and her
friend was talking to me and
she had this
what we would call an imaginary
friend
who she would talk to and she was
with her all the time.
Nobody else could see her but they
would have exchange and interaction
and they supposedly had a good
relationship and this friend was out
to protect her and take care of her
and so forth.
And then the girl from the youth
group said and it just seems like
sometimes
her friend's personality
said it just changes sometimes and
it's like I'm not sure it's her.
So she said would you talk to her?
I said sure, I talked to her.
I didn't think it was demonic.
I thought she had mental problems.
You know imaginary friend.
So one day after noon after school
we had an appointment. She
dropped by and
I started talking with her
and
got on the conversation of this
friend.
So I said well describe her to me. So she
described her to me and
what she's like and what they talk
about and
it was a spirit guide.
What it was. I didn't know that at
the time
but it was a spirit guide.
I said well you know it's with
you pretty much all the time.
Yeah.
Sleeping awake makes no difference. She's
always
somewhere around me.
Nobody else sees her. No? Just me.
I said you don't think that's odd?
Well, never thought about it.
Only if you should start thinking
about it you know.
I said well is she here now?
She said yeah she didn't want to
come in and interrupt anything so
she's
sitting out in the steps right in
front of the church.
I said well go bring her in.
I want to meet her.
She gets up and goes out and I hear
talking to somebody.
Didn't take couple minutes.
Here she comes back in.
Now the girl I was talking to
who went out to bring her friend
back
came back a totally different person.
In that two minutes she had
changed her hairdo a little bit.
Her how she walked was different.
She had been wearing a sweater.
She took that off and had draped it
across her arm.
She talked different.
It was like I was talking to a
different person.
The first person was a little bit
like a teenager, excited and
expressive.
And this person was extremely
shy
and quiet.
And I'm going well you do have
mental problems.
You know that's what was going on with me.
So she came in and sat down and we
started talking about different
things and
I thought well you know I had heard
and here was one of the problems.
See I had no instruction
on dealing with demons.
I grew up believing they were there
and we can cast them out.
But I had no instruction.
I had just heard things.
And I had heard that when you talk
about the blood of Jesus it riles
them up.
So I thought well let's find out
if this is mental illness or if
this is a demon you know.
So we're talking like I'm talking
carrying conversation with you and
I just said well what do you think
about Jesus?
And we start talking well I know
who Jesus is and
blah blah blah played the role
really well.
So I led it into the blood of
Jesus and how the blood of Jesus
came to you know he died for us
to set us free from our sin
and to give us complete freedom
from the demonic realm.
And kind of led it down that
direction.
Well the longer I talked
it didn't like the conversation.
Didn't want to talk about that
conversation.
Asked me to switch though.
Let's talk about something
different.
I said I like talking about this.
So I just kept on it.
And finally it couldn't hold
real well and it kind of
manifested in a non-human way.
And we'll talk about some of
that later.
But manifested and I said
you're a demon aren't you?
And then it was knew it was had.
Cats out of the bag.
I said so you're not really
her friend.
You're not really protecting her
and watching out for her.
You're with her but it's not
ultimately for her best.
Now I didn't realize at that
point this was like the bottom
rung of a hierarchy.
And I was dealing with the low
level here.
And a lot of times even the low
level demons don't really know
what they're doing and why
they're doing it.
They're just doing it for fear
of reprisal because they have
horrible things go on in that
kingdom.
So I went through that and cast
it out.
Got rid of it.
Told it had to go.
And the girl comes back.
You know it's kind of like
in that particular case
what kind of happened I cast
it out and the girl kind of
slumped in her chair like this
and then she opened her eyes
and shook her head and looked
at me and said
what happened?
Because she was blacked out
in this case.
She was gone.
Not always that happened
but in this case she was
gone.
And she looked at her sweater
and she said who took my
sweater off?
And she went to touch her
head and she said
who messed with my hair?
So she was unaware of
anything that had happened.
So I explained to her what
happened and
she said so now this
I'm not going to have this
friend anymore.
I tried to explain
this is really not a friend.
It's posturing as a friend
but long term this friend
is going to destroy your life.
Well she had a hard time
grasping that because
she hadn't seen that side.
But she took my word for it
and she left and
I shared it with the head
pastor and we were all
excited that
well praise God she's free
and she'll learn some
things now about this
and we'll have to teach her
some things.
Well the next day at school
all hell broke loose
for her.
And a spirit manifested
in her just
unconscious she couldn't
control it.
It just happened
very violently,
very belligerently,
totally embarrassed
her at schools for her
friend who was part of
our youth group called me
and said we got a problem
going to bring her over.
So I got a hold of the
head pastor and we were
waiting and she brought her
over.
And I said well this
what happened yesterday
and this is what went on
and this is what I think
we're dealing with.
I think we're dealing with
demons.
This was his response.
He said she's saved.
She can't have a demon.
Because see that's what
our denomination believed.
She's saved.
She can't have a demon.
I said well that's my
that's where I'm coming
from.
So let's figure this out.
So she came in
her friend brought her in.
She didn't want to
commend.
She was very agitated,
very fearful of us,
me specifically
because I was the one
who was dealing with her.
Very distrusting,
wanted to run,
wanted to get away,
had a whole lot of
really bad thoughts
going through her head
about me and the church
and this that and the other
and the best thing to do
is just run.
And I didn't know it
at the time but that is
a very typical thing
that happens with people
who have demonic issues
and they're being
brought to a place
where the demons know
they're in trouble.
They will stir the person's
emotions and give them
all kinds of reasons
why you need to stay away
and they're filled
with fear and anxiety
and all kinds of stuff.
That happens over
and over and over.
It's very common.
So anyway, she brought
her in, sat her down
and then she left
and it was just
the head pastor and I.
And so I looked at her
and I said, what's going on?
She said, I don't know.
It's just that at school
it's just something happened
and it wasn't me
and I couldn't remember
going from classroom to classroom
and they said I yelled
and I screamed
and I cussed
and I did things
and I don't remember
doing any of it
and I'm freaked out.
I said, well, let's pray.
So we prayed
down with the prayer,
you know, naive Christian
prayed with my eyes closed.
Because that's holy.
I still like to pray
with my eyes closed
but one of our own demons
and I don't anymore.
So I prayed with my eyes closed
and once I was done
with the prayer
I opened my eyes
and this thing was staring
out of her at me
that I knew was not her
and the look of I hate you
I will kill you
I will destroy you
coming out of her eyes
and off her face
I'm going
and I looked at the head pastor
and he was looking at it too
and he was going
whoa
it proceeded
to yell at us
cuss out our God
cuss us out
threaten us
got out of its seat
and stood over me
she is mine
Blankety blank, and you will never blankety blank have her. I will kill her before you do. She is mine. I own her. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So to begin with, we're going...
You know, it's like, this is my first time in. This is his first time in. And we're kind of like...
What the world?
Well, finally I looked at him. I said, this is a demon. And he looked at me and he said, I think so.
So we started going after it in the name of Jesus. You're going to and you sit down and blah, blah, blah.
It had absolutely zippo effect. This thing said and did what it wanted to do.
This went on for, I don't know, hour, two hours, whatever. Seemed like forever.
Totally made fools out of us, mocked our God and all kinds of stuff. Nothing we said or did meant anything to it.
Finally it just got disgusted with us and said, you Christians are so dumb. I am wasting my time. I'm out of here.
And whoop! It went, I call it coming up or going down. It went down. In other words, it left her brain. The brain is the interface.
And spirits can interface with the physical body through the brain. Our spirit does. The Holy Spirit does.
Demons can. Spirits, if they get access to the brain, they can interface with the brain and take over the body.
So it went down and she was sitting at this point and she blinks and looks at us and, oh, I can tell by the looks in your face that something just happened.
That's what she said. I'm going, yeah, a little bit. I said, how do you feel? She said, I'm not good.
So we talked a little bit and we knew we were had. So I said, what do we do? He said, let's just pray we're there and believe God's going to protect and take care of her.
Let's send her out of the door making another appointment for tomorrow. I said, okay, I'm in. So we sent her out the door, made an appointment for the next day for him, his wife, a board member, board member's wife, me and my wife.
We're going to deal with this thing. And we didn't do it at church. We did it at the parsonage, which was where the pastor was living at that time.
So she met us there and etc. And so we're armed to the teeth. We're going for this thing. We're not going to be playing the game we played yesterday.
And I said, whatever it was, because I didn't know anything about this. I said, whatever it was that was talking to us, I want to talk to you right now.
Well, all of a sudden she changed. But it wasn't the thing from the day before. This was a new one. That was almost the total opposite personality.
If I were to describe this, this was like an eight, nine year old mentality. Very timid, very shy, very afraid.
Which again, we're going, what? We got our boxing gloves on. We're ready to throw down. And this shows up. And it wouldn't leave.
You get out of here. I want to talk to you. It wouldn't leave.
Now, I'll just sum up a few hours that happened there. This thing didn't know it wasn't supposed to say certain things.
So it said some things that really gave us some insight. I'll just mention two of them.
It was sitting in a chair. I was sitting in a chair and the other people were kind of scattered throughout the living room.
The head pastor was sitting over here. Then he'd get up, walk around, sit back down. He was tormented.
This can't be happening. She can't have a demon. She's saved.
So anyway, one of the things we noticed is it kept looking above us, around us, and would cringe.
And finally it bothered us. And I think it was a pastor's wife who said, ask it what's going on.
The person who had worked with us had told us that one of the things you can do if they won't obey you is read the word.
Have it going constantly in the background. Have somebody reading the word, especially New Testament, especially what Jesus says.
Just have them kind of running in the back. So she was standing in the background reading the word and she noticed that it was always cringing.
And so I said, what are you looking at? First of all, it said this. Could you tell her to stop reading that book?
I said, why? Because when she reads that book, it's like there's little darts that are going into me.
And they're causing me a lot of pain.
So there is the sword of the spirit and there is the genuine for the counterfeit of the shield of faith which quenches the fiery darts of the wicked one.
Now remember, the devil can't create anything. All he can do is imitate. He's a non-creative being and that's one of the reasons he hates us because we're made in God's image, we're creative.
He can only do what power he's given to him, he's not creative. So he will take what God does and he perverts it.
Well, he throws darts at us which we're supposed to use our faith to stop. But apparently reading the word throws darts at them.
So I said, well, hang on for a bit. Just shut that down. Let's give a little room here.
I said, what are you looking at? And it looked down and said, I don't want to say.
I said, now come on, tell me what you're looking at. It's the mighty ones. Mighty ones.
You know, here we are, dumb as rocks. We have no clue what this thing is talking about because it doesn't happen in our denomination.
The mighty ones. Okay. You're going to have to help me with this. I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you mean the mighty ones?
The big ones that serve your God. Oh, all of a sudden somebody piped up and they said, maybe that's angels.
I said, are you talking about angels? The mighty ones that serve your God. I said, well, where are they?
And it pointed them out in the room. I said, well, describe them to me. I can't look at them. They're too bright.
And when I take a glimpse, they're standing there with their sword in front of them.
And I can only see them from this to this point because the rest of them is above the ceiling.
And we're going, that's angels. This thing's seeing angels. And it's afraid of them.
So it's not just us here. So that encouraged us.
And the second thing it talked about was what it called the live holds. I said, how do you get into people?
We look for, we create live holds. Well, we'll describe that out of Ephesians 4 because when you take a certain scripture apart in Ephesians 4
and go to the original language, it gives that verbatim. So that'll come.
But so that put us on a search of, if anything here that's being said is accurate, it has to be in the word.
Well, we knew angels were in the word. So we're on the right track there.
Live holds, that's like, yeah, that sounds really fishy. That could be a bunch of ballarchy.
But anyway, those were a couple of things that came out of that conversation.
Well, over a period of time, we were able to get rid of it.
And we felt like we cast it out. And as a result, the girl's life got worse.
More manifestations, more out of control, more seeing spirits, this, that and the other.
From that point on, it just seemed like a flood gate was opened up and spirits would come up and take her body over at will.
Any time, any place, just destroying this girl's life.
So the next day, the only ones who were available was a pastor and I.
So they brought her from school again because everything's going awry there.
And now the one who was not the day before but the belligerent one,
she walked in the door and sat down and this thing just came up and started just ripping us verbally.
And telling us we need to get out of this scene. We are wasting our time. There's nothing we can do.
You're blankety. Blank. God is dead. You think he rose from the dead? He is dead. You have no power over me.
Use his name. See what it does. It does nothing over me.
And the sad part was it was true. Nothing was happening.
And this thing ripped us and then in an effort, you know, in a way of just showing its dominance and just,
I'm leaving. Get out of here. And it would go away and the girl was back.
And I looked at him. He said, let's get her saved.
We're still back on save people can't have demons. I said, I'm in. Let's get her saved.
So we got her saved. Let her through the sinner's prayer. She was baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Went back through that. She's praying in tongues. Got her saved. We knew the word thing worked.
So we had her sitting there. Reading out of the Sermon on the Mount out loud.
And I said, if there's anything that can happen now because she's saved, I want to talk to you.
And to our bewilderment, she stopped reading Bible. And just like this, she was sitting in chair, just like this.
She closed the Bible, looked at me and whipped it at me.
I ducked to the side. It hit the wall just flat. It sounded like a gunshot. Bam!
And I'm going, well, that didn't work.
Evidently, it's still there.
So now we couldn't do anything with it. It was going to just, it was throwing things,
ripping, you know, trying to throw shells over. And it wouldn't respond to anything we said. Nothing.
So now we take a little side tour. Since this has happened before, there was a man who, when I was in college,
was traveling through the western part of the United States. That's back when school still did school lyceums.
And we were in a predominantly Catholic community, so the Catholic church had huge influence what happened in the public school.
And so once a month, we would have some kind of religious, they called it a lyceum, but they'd have a speaker,
didn't make any difference, Protestant, Catholic, whatever, they'd have a speaker come in and,
and for an hour of the day, usually the last hour of the day, we'd have a lyceum and it was a religious class.
And this guy had showed up when I was in college. I'm going to be minister, so I'm in college.
He had showed up and done a lyceum and then that night, he did a open class or open session for whoever.
And my mom had got a hold of me and said, we got this guy coming. He's Baptist and he came out of Satanism
and he is going to be speaking at a lyceum in school and he said, then there's going to be a Friday evening,
then there's going to be an open thing. And he says, Christians can have demons.
And this was like, that can't be, can't be, can it? I said, I'm coming home.
I want to see this guy because this guy's a flake. Christians can't have demons. See, that's what we believed.
So I came home and I went to that evening thing and he kind of laid out a pretty good case for what he had been involved in
and Christians can have demons. And he gave story after story after story and with the thought of,
and you can be set free if you're being tormented, if you're, you can be set free.
That was always the thing behind it. You can be set free. I didn't know what to think of it.
I thought this guy's got to be loony, but whatever. So I just put it out of my mind, forgot about it.
We just kind of wrote it off. He went on his way. We went on our way.
I graduated college. I'm in ministry. We're running into this problem.
So I asked the head pastor, I said, who in the, who in the district casts out demons?
Who can we get a hold of? Well, he never told me if he called anybody or not,
but he came back with the information. He said, I can't find anybody.
I said, well, would you not agree? We have no clue what we're doing. We're in trouble here.
He said, yeah, because this thing is just not listening to us at all.
I said, well, there was this guy who I had seen a number of years back
who I thought was an idiot that I wonder if he could help us.
Isn't it something how everybody's idiots until you need their help?
And it's like, I wonder. So I'd gotten somehow I tracked his number down.
Hadn't called him yet. So we're sitting here in the office this third day.
This demon is just ranting and raving. And I said, I'm going to call this guy.
And I called, I said his name. And this demon whipped its head and looked at me
and sat down in the chair. And I said, oh, heard of this guy, huh?
No answer. So I called him. He happened to be home. He picked up the phone.
I introduced myself, told him where I'd seen him, what the circumstances were.
Told him this is what we're into. This is what's happening. And it's ugly.
Okay. So I'm looking for some compassion here. Some sympathy.
He laughs.
You charismatic, you're so green. You know nothing about demons.
You talk a big talk, but you know nothing about how to deal with them.
And I'm going, well, thanks man. That's an encouraging word.
And I was just dead quiet. So he knew, you know, I'm probably sitting in their white face going...
He said, is the person there with you? I said, yes. Is the demon up? Yes.
He said, let me talk to him. So I bring, I say, he wants to talk to you.
You know, here we're on a card yet. This isn't, this isn't one of these kinds of phones.
And we're not FaceTiming. It's just card tied to the wall. You got to get up and come over here.
No. I said, he wants to talk to you and he's telling you to get up and come over here.
He got up and went over there. And I'm going, what the world?
You don't listen to nothing we say. But here's a guy hundreds of miles away on a phone.
And you're listening. So I put the phone to the girl's ear and the demon was there.
He starts talking. I couldn't hear what he was saying, but I heard him talking.
Asking questions. Yes. No. I can't do that. She's mine. I will not.
Just respectful and just like, aren't you going to cuss? Aren't you going to throw anything?
What's this politeness all of a sudden? Just respectful.
Finally, it looks at me. I'm holding the phone there. It looks at me. It says he wants to talk to you again.
And goes over and sits down. Just like the nicest grade schooler.
So I got on the phone. He said, I'm not going to be able to get it out across the phone. It's not going to go.
He said, but this much, I know you got to get its name. This is one of those cases like Jesus had. What's your name?
He said, you're going to have to get its name. Once you got its name, he said, it'll be fine.
I said, how do we do that? He snickers.
You tell it to give it to you.
I'm going, okay, we'll try that. Thank you. Click.
Back to the same old story. In the name of Jesus, you tell me your name. You blankety blank and breathing fire at us again.
I'm done with you. I'm done with this whole thing. I am not leaving. She's mine. I'll kill her before I let her go.
Boop, it's gone. I thought, well, thank God it went down because we couldn't get rid of it.
It wasn't going away out of her running her body. It wasn't going down. Finally, it went down.
I looked at the pastor and he said, yep. He said, let's pray with her. Send her home.
Believe God's going to protect her. Okay, we're not doing any good this way.
She walked out of the room. This session we had a board member with us. There was three of us. We had a board member with us.
And we looked at each other and the head pastor looked at me and he said, my theology right now is totally destroyed.
He said the name of Jesus obviously is not working. And he says, if this doesn't change, I'm quitting the ministry.
This is not truth. I was taught this is the way things go. This is the way things happen. And this isn't it. I'm quitting.
I said, well, I'm with you. I said, if it doesn't work, why are we talking it?
So we made an agreement. We're going to fast and pray until she willfully comes back. We're not going to set an appointment.
Until she willfully comes back. We're going to fast and pray. And if that doesn't work, we're done.
Send her off to mental hospital, whatever. We're done. It was three days. We fasted and prayed for three days.
Then she called and asked for an appointment. So we all three, all three of us pastor me and the board member met.
And she came in. How's it been going? Really bad. I'm seeing them now. I'm seeing them at night.
They're grabbing me. They're shoving me. They're trying to drag me out of bed. They're threatening me.
It's like I can see them like I see you. And it's really bad.
Okay. Well, let's talk to them. And didn't even have to really ask.
And this thing came back up. You blanket a blank again. I thought I told you to get out of her life.
And just read the riot act for maybe two, three minutes. And I stopped it and I said, I pulled the scripture out.
These kind of go not but by prayer and fasting. So I read the scripture to it. And I said, we have fasted.
And you are going today. I am not. I said, what's your name? In the name of Jesus. Tell me your name.
I don't have to tell you my name. And it, you know, but we could tell it was kind of weakening.
And the last fervent exchange it had, it was again standing over me.
I will never tell you my name. It is none of your business and cussing me out and your God's dead.
And you have no power. And I said in Jesus name, tell me your name.
It went back sat in the chair. My name is Wadri Annaka. Now let me go. I'm done here.
I said, oh, I'm not going to release you now. You turned our life and her life into living hell for the last few days.
And now I'm just going to let you go. No, no, no.
So long story short, we dealt with that. This was the strong man. And the strong man had to be dealt with.
And when the strong man was dealt with, then everything else, kind of like peeling layers off,
but you take a big chunk out and then you deal with the residue as time goes on.
And this was the strong man.
Well, in the course of what was happening when this session, when she was kind of all over us,
well, it was all over us through her.
It said, I'm going to kill her and this is going to be over.
And you guys are going to be in jail because she's a minor, which she was.
And you guys are going to be in jail and you're going to be charged with murder of a minor
and nobody's going to believe your story. And this thing's done.
And it grabbed her by the throat and her eyes got big.
And just like a wet noodle, she just went down to the floor, not breathing, couldn't find a pulse.
Nothing. It's like, I think it killed her.
And I looked at the head pastor and he looked at me with a shocked look like, oh man, we're in trouble.
And so we're sitting there, pastor, me and the board member, we're discussing this.
And we tried, we shook her, we, in Jesus' name, wake up, we'd come back, you know, out.
So we sat back. We said, well, because this whole thing of hearing the Holy Spirit, we had no knowledge of that.
That's why another reason we were in such trouble, we couldn't hear what to do next.
So we finally sat back and said, God, what do we do?
Well, he probably sitting on a throne going, thank you, finally you ask.
And this idea came to my head where Jesus had a dead girl and she wouldn't wake up and he reached out and he took her hand.
And he gives it in Aramaic, but young lady arrives.
So I read the scripture and I looked at the guys. What do you think?
Nothing else working. She looks dead to me.
There was nothing. There was no movement. There was no eye flutter. There was no breath.
There was nothing. And we were into this a few minutes now.
We're going to say, good.
So I said, okay, Lord, this is what came to me. So I'm going to do this.
I reached down, grabbed her hand, called her by her name. I said, arise.
When she was laying there, she opened her eyes.
Oh, what just happened?
We got her up. Boom. That's when the spirit came back and said, I thought I told you to leave her alone.
And then we got its name and dealt with it.
So that was then over time, there were some, you know, some little things left that had to be dealt with to clean her up.
But in time, she was free. She did everything quit. Her friend was gone.
Nothing was taking her over anymore. Everything quit. There's that and the other.
So that summer, this was in the spring. That summer I became the pastor of that church.
And then at the beginning of that next year, we had a revival where about 125, over about a three month period of time, 125 people ish got saved.
Most of them got baptized in the Holy Spirit. All kinds of good things happening.
That everything was great for about a year and a half.
And then it's like God just dropped me in the middle of hell for the next 18 months.
And demons were manifesting on an ongoing basis, mostly in the new saved, but not totally, from every direction.
Men, women, teenagers, it just didn't make much difference. It was absolutely wild. It was over the top.
Things happening pretty much every day. Something was manifesting in somebody.
And again, often the spirit wasn't responding. It was better, but it wouldn't respond to us the way we wanted it to.
And the battles would go on, you know, trying to get the thing out, trying to get the thing to obey would go on for hours.
And then you come back the next day and it would go on for weeks and a couple of cases that went on for months.
And looking back on it, the best way I can describe it, it's like God took me, knowing I can't swim,
and threw me off the boat someplace in the middle of the ocean and drove away.
And I was drowning. That's just the best way to say it.
I was drowning. I was trying to tread water, but I think I was underwater more than I was above water.
This man who became my mentor was absolutely a lifesaver during that period of time, but he wasn't living close by,
so he wasn't able to personally come and help me.
I got a hold of the district, talked to the presbyter. I said, this what's going on.
I said, is there anybody in the district who knows anything about deliverance?
Because I'm drowning here. I don't know what I'm doing evidently, and this thing is overwhelming me.
He looked at me and he said, there's nobody in the district who can help you that I know of.
I said, well, what do you recommend?
He said, have the worst cases admitted to a psychiatric hospital?
I can recommend a good one. I think it was in Illinois that the assemblies of God were part of them.
Okay. I know this is demonic. It's not working right.
So we're going to shuffle the buck off to somebody else, and they'll probably drug these people up
and they'll never be in the right mind the rest of their life.
Okay. Nah. I can't do that.
One thing that I knew, that I knew, that I knew is God had put me into this thing.
It was an assignment to me.
And if I were to obey, I could not walk away from this.
If I was ever going to hear, well done.
I could not walk away from this. I just knew it, that I knew it.
I wanted to walk away.
I had all kinds of people advising me to walk away.
This is going to end badly. This is, you know, all this stuff.
But I couldn't do it. So I just stuck with it.
Now how typical deliverance goes with people, of course it depends upon how God uses.
You know, some people, God just uses people different ways.
And typically things are discovered where demons are and where they're hiding
and where they're infesting and you repent of it and cast the spirit out.
It's in a prayer line. It's in a counseling session.
It's in an office, whatever the person's dealt with.
And they get freer and freer and freer and life goes on.
Typically it's pretty clean, straightforward, may involve some intensity.
Sometimes it takes a little time, but nothing over the top.
That's how it's supposed to work.
That did not work that way during this chunk of my life.
I'll just give you, there's so many things I could talk about. I could talk for hours.
I'll just give you some examples.
So we had this first person, then I became pastor and this was a year and two years now
after I became pastor had that revival thing.
This was one of the new people that got saved.
Had a lady come to the office.
First she explained some things that were happening.
I said, ah, it sounds demonic to me.
So she came to the office after Sunday morning service.
And so we were talking and I said, well, let's just pray.
I learned later not to do that.
I closed my eyes and I prayed, Lord, if there's something we need to deal with here
or she needs to be set free, you know, and I just prayed a very generic prayer.
I opened my eyes and here we are again.
This thing's looking at me with this look that it's like I will kill you if it's the last thing I do.
First thing that happened is books started coming off the shelf and flying.
The church had just bought a brand new copier. Never had one before.
To make sure that it would never be abused, they put it in my office.
It was the hand of God because it never got broke because it flew off that stand and upside down and against the wall.
Again, absolutely could not control it.
It would not respond at all.
Finally it went away.
I sent her home gone.
Oh dear Jesus, here we go again.
Two days later a friend, board member, who was teaching a Bible study with they attended brought her back.
And again, same thing.
Freaked out, did not want anything to do with me.
Did not want to come into the house.
Did wanted nothing that this person is evil.
This person is bad.
That is wanted nothing to do with me, blah, blah, blah.
We got her convinced, come in the house.
It was seven in the evening.
We started praying over her and things started manifesting.
Seven the next morning we had made no progress whatsoever.
Other than we were all exhausted and looked like total fools.
So out the door again.
Well now the next time, which was a day or two later, she came back.
She was extreme headache.
Trouble breathing.
Vomiting almost continually.
Couldn't eat anything.
Vomiting almost continually.
Vomiting blood from time to time.
Just in a bad way.
So we started going after it, doing what we knew how to do.
And it just went down from bad to worse.
No matter what we said, no matter what we did.
I called this other person, got him on the phone.
He said, I don't know what you got.
He said, but it does this time this thing didn't obey him either.
He said, I don't know what you got.
But you're going to have to really face this one down.
And God's going to have to lead you.
And I'm going, I can't hardly hear God's voice.
And this is not working well.
And persons violently sick.
They're now seeing in the spirit round two.
Poltergeist type of incidents are happening.
Poltergeist is where physical things start floating around.
And, you know, there's nobody holding on.
There's nobody doing anything but, you know, physical manifestations of spirits.
Being pushed, being hit, being drug out of bed at night,
ganged up on surrounded by demons.
They could see them.
They were choking the person.
It was just a horrid, horrid, horrid situation that just progressively got worse.
I'll come back to that one.
That one went on going for months.
There was a Sunday night service where a teenager comes up to me after service and says,
newly saved, says,
is it normal when God's present gets on you that you come out of your body and you float around the room?
I'm going, you're probably not.
I don't think that's normal.
Well, tonight, you know, when you were speaking, she said,
I felt myself lifting out of my body and I was scrambling, trying to hold onto my body.
And I couldn't. And I came out and I was floating around the room.
I could tell you what different people were doing and reading.
And I was trying to get back in my body.
And finally then towards the end, when you were speaking, I got back to my body and I was freaked out.
I think so.
I said, well, let's pray.
So I grabbed a few people and got her in the back room, prayed and found out that her sister was in witchcraft.
Her sister, and this was all new to me.
I didn't know this.
But her sister was in witchcraft.
Her sister was astral projecting, shoving her out of her body because her sister wanted her out of Christianity
because this was a false God and this, that and the other.
So the way we knew this happened is during the time we were praying with her, her sister pops into her body
as she's astral projecting and starts talking to me.
And I could tell this was different.
And the Holy Spirit said, this is not a demon, this is her sister.
So I called it up.
I said, you're not a demon, are you?
No.
How long did it take you to get that one?
It didn't pass or burn.
You know, just real...
It lights up the side of you that wants to...
Just real arrogant.
And then the Holy Spirit said, it's her sister.
I said, you're her sister.
That shocked it.
Well, long story short, we got it out and we got the girl helped and over a period of time
she got free too.
And there were some situations I had, just to give you an example.
Like for instance, the one that got worse and worse and worse.
Well, they were being drug out of their house
and literally beat up at night.
Black and blue marks.
You could see hand prints where they were being choked and all kinds of stuff.
And we can't let this happen.
So we brought her to the parsonage, put her in the spare room, and the same thing happened.
During the night, I come the next morning, knock on the door.
Nobody's in there.
Oh, man.
Went through the house, nobody's in the house.
Went outside, found her laying behind the church just coming to consciousness again.
Totally beat up.
Well, we can't let this happen.
So we started, my wife and I started sleeping in the living room with this person
so that it couldn't be drug out of the house.
Now, this is the kind of, like I said, I just got thrown in the ocean.
Couldn't swim.
This is the kind of thing that happened.
So I wake up, I hear a little bit of a commotion.
I wake up.
Here is the person reaching toward me, but sliding backwards and visibly screaming.
Ah!
I couldn't hear a thing.
There was no sound.
The sound was being blocked.
So I jump up, grab the person.
The person's leaning towards me.
I lean back.
Now we're both being drugged down the hallway.
There's nobody on the other side of this person.
Just strange, weird stuff.
People were being sent from Colvins to come and harass us during the night.
Sometimes they would personally come.
Sometimes they'd send their spirits.
The doorbell would ring.
There'd be a knock at the door.
You'd go to the door, the screen door standing wide open.
There's nobody there.
And the screen door is on a spring.
It should close by itself.
There's nobody there.
A couple of times at the church, you hear a knock.
You go, you find the knock.
The door standing wide open.
It's on a hydraulic closure.
It should close standing wide open.
In the name of Jesus, get out of here.
You've got nothing to do with us.
It would leave the door would close.
Just ongoing craziness like that.
Bringing people to the parsonage.
Trying to help them.
Sometimes they'd spend the night.
Things like that.
Had three situations with knives.
Again at the parsonage.
Someone manifested.
Ran into a kitchen.
Into the kitchen.
Grabbed a butcher knife out of the drawer.
So I had to run behind them to try to stop this.
The kitchen, it was a smaller house.
So across the kitchen probably 12 feet.
They grabbed the door.
Turned around and looked at me.
I'm standing where the kitchen ends.
And it turns into the dining room.
Which is probably another 12, 14 feet to the wall.
So you've got to get a picture of this.
This is supernatural.
I'm going to kill you.
Through the butcher knife at me.
And it was, I'm sure it was angels.
It didn't come at me.
It went down.
Just missed my leg.
At the point of it stuck into the linoleum.
Because I found that later.
Here.
There was somebody else we were working with.
Who was laying on the couch.
Over here in the living room.
Dining rooms behind me.
It went up, hit the wall.
Because I watched it go.
It went up, hit the wall.
Near the top of the wall.
Fell down at like a 45 degree angle.
Hit the arm of the couch.
Came off the couch.
Couches about eight feet long.
Bounced three times on the floor.
In front of the couch.
Went up and the handle hit the person on the head.
So hard they had a lump.
That's not normal.
And I'm gone.
Wow.
Another time.
They got a whole of a steak knife.
And they said.
We're not letting you have this person.
They took the steak knife.
And went like this.
And I go.
In the jama Jesus.
No.
And I went over and grabbed the hand.
The steak knife.
I could see the handle.
Pushing against the shirt.
Into the person's belly.
They said.
I'm going to kill her.
You can't help.
And they started working the knife.
And it's inside the person.
And in the name of Jesus.
No.
And I pulled it out.
And I said.
There will be no harm.
And the person doubled over.
And hit the floor.
I just been stabbed.
They were.
Back.
And the spirit was gone.
I just been stabbed.
I said.
Let me see.
Let me see how bad it is.
It hurts like fire.
I said.
Let me see.
They got up.
And I looked.
There was no hole in the fabric.
I said.
Lift your shirt.
There was a red line.
Where the knife had gone in.
There was no hole in the person.
There was no cut.
There was no nothing.
See now.
Now.
Those kind of experiences make you start going.
Yeah.
Am I losing it?
Yeah.
Seriously.
For real.
I saw this knife in the person.
They felt it in them.
And there ain't nothing.
This is either really, really, really God.
Or this is starting to get to me.
And we're going over the deep end here.
Screaming and yelling at you.
Five feet away from you.
You can't hear a thing.
Totally dead quiet.
See, so.
Now it's starting to mess with my head a little bit too.
When I started learning how to deal with astral projections.
Because they showed up.
It's not like I wanted this.
I didn't want any.
I hated this whole thing.
This thing was.
I was.
This was not a happy time in my life.
So if someone ever tells you.
God will only ask you to do what you enjoy.
Yeah, you go tell that to somebody else.
I've been down that road.
And I hated this.
But there was about a month period of time.
Where someone was experiencing astral projection stuff.
We kept them at the parsonage.
We didn't sleep at night.
During the daytime it was calm.
Once the sun set the activity would start.
And anywhere from about 2 to 5 in the morning.
Before it started getting light.
It was like all hell was loose.
It was just unbelievable.
And it's like God's sitting there looking.
I'm going.
It's ain't working.
Nothing's working right.
You'd get some victory.
And then you'd get some loss.
And it's like God's sitting on the throne.
Going.
You'll figure it out.
Okay.
And the manifestations and the torments coming against the people.
Would be so strong.
Some nights it's like.
We had absolutely no authority whatsoever.
And then the next night it's like we gained some ground.
Made some progress.
And they would just slosh back and forth.
Before we finally got that one figured out.
And they got free of that.
I had two people die.
During deliverance.
I'll give you the story of one of them.
They died and God brought them back to life.
Thank God.
Now part of the problem was.
The way I was taught to deal with this by the guy who was mentoring me.
He grew up in a satanic home.
Devil worshiping home.
He didn't know there was a God until he was I think 18 years old.
He was in the Montgomery wards catalog and he saw advertisement for a Bible.
And it had something to do with God.
He had never heard of that before.
And he was curious who he ordered a New Testament.
And that was the beginning.
Of his conversion.
But.
They had they were so deep into this that they had spirits.
They had assigned to him and they would see him.
They would come and go like people and they tell him to go do stuff and.
And.
Carry out assignments for him.
And he said that that was normal life.
He said for our whole family.
We'd sit around the dinner table and we'd talk to spirits and send them.
And dad would tell this one to go and destroy that person's business and.
Just.
On and on and on.
Just that was normal life.
He said I always got the biggest buck.
He was hunting.
He was a really good shot.
He said but I always got the biggest buck.
I said how'd you get it?
He said I'd ask to project.
He said I'd trudge out to the woods.
Sit down by tree.
I'd ask to reject you come out of your body.
Ecclesiastes talks about it.
You're tied back to your body with a silver cord Ecclesiastes says.
And that's exactly what he said it looks like.
I've never done it.
Not interested.
But he said you can see a thin like cord.
String that goes back to your body.
And he says you have to work and practice to go further and further and further away from your body.
And that thing stretch.
And he says you're dedicating yourself more and more to demons the whole time.
And they're giving you the ability.
They're keeping your body alive and giving you the ability to come out.
He said so I had you know we grew up doing this stuff.
He said so I'd sit by tree after project go around the woods.
Find the biggest buck where it was laying.
Go back to my body sneak over there and shoot it.
Said I always had the biggest buck.
He said but there was one thing that happened.
He said that really bothered me.
He said there was a preacher.
It came to down.
He had a tent meeting and people were all excited about this.
He said my dad was very frustrated with it.
He didn't want anything to do with it.
He said so I thought well I'll fix this.
He said so I told my spirits to go during a service and mess this preacher up.
Confuse him, make him look like a fool.
And he said the evening went on and he said my spirits came back.
And I said well did you do it?
And they said there's something different about this guy.
Well what's different about it?
Did you do it or didn't you?
Can't. We can't get close to him.
He said why?
He asked them why can't you get close to him?
They said there's a ring of fire around him.
That isn't touching him.
It doesn't burn him.
But when we get close we can't cross it.
It burns us.
So we can't do anything.
He said that really bothered me.
Because I was sure we served the greatest God.
And that really bothered me.
So then out of that he ended up ordering that New Testament out of Montgomery wards.
And he said the main thing he read it all the way through and there was one thing he said that stood out to him.
God is not a man that he can lie.
He said that was the only thing that caught my in the whole New Testament.
I read it through. That was the only thing that caught me.
He said because my spirits would lie to me.
Demons would lie to us.
He said it was consistent. You always knew you didn't know if they were saying the truth or not.
And this God never lies.
That caught his attention.
And then slowly, slowly it worked back in.
Well, once he got saved and started doing deliverance.
God put him on the shelf.
He got saved I think 20 or early 20s.
God put him on the shelf.
He never did any deliverance until he was 55 years old.
Once he started doing deliverance because of what he knew.
He had a very unique way of doing it.
He would, God would, the Holy Spirit would give him the names of the demons and the hierarchy of the demons.
And he would just list them out and take authority over them as a kingdom and cast them out.
Well, that's all good. It works for you. People are getting set free.
Well, he was trying to teach me to do that.
I couldn't really even hear the voice of God.
Now I'm going to hear God above this.
So he gave me lists. I got, I kept a few of them just for memory's sake.
He gave me lists and he said, these are always changing.
He said, well, I'll stay in touch because these are always changing.
And this, that and the other.
But here's how it goes.
And he explained to me, he said, the demonic kingdom is set up opposite of God's.
God puts the male at the front and the female supports and agrees.
He says the demonic kingdom flips that.
It's the woman at the front and the man has to follow and posture himself accordingly in name and title.
So when you started taking authority over a thing, you were always taking authority over queens, princesses,
queen mothers. It was always the woman name you had to grab first and then build it underneath.
Like for instance, antichrist kingdom of the will and emotions.
I'll just read a couple of things to you.
It starts with queen mother, anthroid with King Anthros, queen mother, anthrapoid with King Anthrapoid,
queen mother, anthroid with King Anthros, and queen antrapoid with Prince Anthros and works its way down.
And he would get those names and he'd just sit and list them out.
This is who you are and he'd talk to them while he's listing them out.
And he's saying, Jesus' name, I take authority over and he'd start with the top and he said,
everything underneath you and sometimes he'd list them, sometimes he wouldn't.
He said, I bind you all together and you're out of here, go.
And the person would be set free.
And I was like, okay, never seen that before.
He said, you can do that.
I said, I can do that.
He said, sure, you're going to have to learn how to do that or you're not going to get them out.
I said, well, the Bible says he's the name of Jesus.
He said, how's that working for you?
I said, well, it's not.
But the Bible says and he believed in the inerrant word of God.
He said, well, he said, my experience that doesn't work.
He says, I will name them.
And he says, they're very legalistic and you got to get it right or they won't go.
But I will name them and they'll leave.
So I was trying to learn this.
Well, as a result, you're caught in bondage.
But it's how God used him.
And if that's how God used him, that was his background.
That's where he came from.
Now God will use different people different ways.
Sometimes people will list the person's sin or sins that have been committed.
Like there's a spirit of adultery here and there's a spirit of lost and a spirit of suicide.
You're doing the same thing he did.
He just called them by their actual name rather than the group they work in.
See, all demonic spirits are assigned to kingdoms or groups they work in.
Lying spirits, there's thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of lying spirits.
They all have an individual name.
But, you know, some people do deliverance by and we take authority over all the lying spirits.
And the lies that your father said to you and this, that's fine.
You're doing the same thing he did just in a more simplified form.
That's fine. That's how God uses you.
That's fine. Like I said at the beginning, God does it different with everybody.
This I struggled with for months.
Months. It just, I got better at it. I got better at it. I got better at it.
But just struggled with it for months.
And there was this one girl who they were done and there's a whole background story to this
of being dedicated to Satan as a daughter of Satan from generations back and all kinds of stuff
that kind of focused on this one girl. And we couldn't get her free.
She was at the house, me and board member and my wife, she was at the house.
And this spirit came up in her and said, they never call Satan Satan.
The fallen one, the deceiver. They never call him Satan.
King Lucifer has said, he's done playing with you.
We're just going to kill here. And that's going to be the end of it.
I am Queen Mother Empress Supreme death and destruction.
And when I leave, she will be dead.
And then began to speak through the girl for I'm going to say 45 minutes without taking a breath.
Just continual talk. Your God has failed.
You are serving the wrong God. The true God is King Lucifer. Just very calmly.
And you are deceived. You have no idea what's going on here.
The proof is you can't stop me. Use your name against me.
Your name can't affect me. We are greater. And just on and on and on.
And we're doing everything we can, take authority over, try to find this structure.
And we could tell we were weakening it.
Finally it got out of the chair. The spirit was running the body and the spirit was weak. Couldn't stand.
So it kind of slumped to the floor and crawled over and grabbed the telephone cord.
And just came back to life.
There is no power of your kingdom that can affect me whatsoever.
I can receive strength from any place.
So we took authority over whatever spiritual power was being pulled into that thing through the telephone cord and broke that off.
Long story short, it was crawling. I was hitting outlets.
It crawled down the hallway, got its hand against the outlet and it's like you had just plugged in the energizer battery.
It was back and standing up, you can't touch me.
You are pitiful, you and your God and cussing and just...
And it ain't working. So you're kind of going, you got a point.
No, I'm in faith. You don't have a point.
So you break off these things. Well it ended in front of the washer and dryer in the hallway.
It had reached under the washer and dryer and got a hold of something that gave it energy and it took us probably 10 minutes to figure out what it was.
Well it was water pipe. I don't know how this works. All I know is it was happening.
And finally we broke that off. So now we're into this probably 40 minutes and it has never stopped talking.
The girl's face is turning blue, lips are blue.
There's no oxygen. And this thing just keeps talking and there's no oxygen. It suffocated her.
Finally, at about 45 minutes, that's what the board member told me.
So it was about 45 minutes. He said, I was watching.
It looked at us and said, you have failed.
Your miserable pitiful God has failed.
I have killed her and we're done now. I'm leaving.
And it left.
And the board member grabbed her hand and was praying, put her hand in his face.
He didn't tell me at the time because he said, I didn't want to weaken your faith any worse than it was.
He said her hand was cold and going stiff already.
He said, that's why I kind of went quiet. He said, I didn't know what to say because it shook me. She's dead.
Well, interestingly enough, it was a few days previous.
There was an angel that had showed up real briefly and told me this. This high notes God.
Again, fingerprint of God. This high notes God.
It talked to me about this person. It probably was a 30 second conversation.
Do not let her die.
You need to memorize this verse.
I said, okay, what is it? You need to memorize it.
I said, okay, what is it?
I am the resurrection and the life.
Though you were dead, you will live.
You will need that verse. Memorize it and do not take her to a hospital because they already have warlocks and witches who are nurses and doctors waiting at every hospital around you.
You take her to a hospital, they will kill her.
Do not let her die. And it left.
So I memorized the verse.
Well, here we are. She's dead. Laying in front of the washer and dryer in the hallway.
And that verse came back. That conversation. I hadn't thought of it the whole time.
But the Holy Spirit brings back to our remembrance that conversation came back.
I said, God, I believe that was an angel.
That was not Satan dressed as the power of light giving me a tool.
I believe that was an angel. And I speak to her.
I am the resurrection and the life.
And though you were dead, you will live.
Come back to life.
Nothing.
And it was one of the first times I experienced the gift of faith.
This bomb went off inside of me.
That it's like there was no place for doubt to hide.
And it's like, what? You didn't obey me?
And I said it again. I think I said it two or three times.
I am the resurrection and the life. You will live and not die.
And all of a sudden, they took a breath.
And they went into the fetal position and just started shaking.
I'm freezing. I'm free.
Well, their body had cooled off to the point when they came back in the body.
They were that cold.
So we covered the person up and laid there.
It took them a while to warm up and stop shaking.
I said, what happened?
She said, the last thing I remember is the ceiling disappeared.
And I could see into space.
And she said, I lifted out of my body and I lifted through the ceiling.
And everything opened up and I started taking up speed.
And I was going towards, like we call a light.
And I was gaining, she was dead.
She said, everything disappeared.
And all I could see is I'm going towards the light.
And she said, then way in the distance.
I heard you say, though you're dead, you will live.
Get back in this body.
She said, and it's like somebody hit the brakes and I came to a stop.
But I didn't go anywhere. I just sat there.
And then after a time or two, she said, I went backwards and I would back in my body.
Over time, because of those things and a bunch of other things that happened,
I lost my marriage.
My wife wasn't up for that.
And I can't blame her.
I lay no blame towards her whatsoever.
Our holder totally guiltless in the matter.
We were drowning. We were in over our heads.
It was just miracle after miracle that kept us from ending up in jail
from killing somebody, dying in the house kind of thing.
And the marriage drowned because of it.
I'm sure there was many things I did wrong regarding the marriage.
But that's between me and Jesus.
We'll talk about that.
And that's where I'm going to leave all that.
I'm not going to talk about that.
But here was my dilemma.
I knew that getting through this period of my life was a mandate from God.
I didn't know why he chose it to play out the way he did.
There were some good things that came out of it.
I developed an extreme intimacy with the Holy Spirit
and I did learn how to hear his voice very clearly.
I remember coming home from one of those deliverance things.
And I crawled in behind.
We had a couch and a chair set in the living room.
I crawled in behind the chair to just kind of get along
and leaned against the wall.
And I told God, I said, I hate this.
I absolutely hate this.
The way your word says it's supposed to work, it does not work.
But yet I know you're God.
I've seen enough miracles.
I've seen you do enough to know it's you.
But I despise what's happening.
I don't want to be part of this any longer.
I want out of this.
This wasn't the first time I talked about this.
I said, I want out of this.
And it has got to start working in the name of Jesus.
I am done with this.
I'm done with the bondage of you've got to find this
and you've got to find that and you've got to list this
and you've got to list that.
I said, that is not in the word.
Now, you use him that way, that's okay.
That's not my goal.
And I sat there and I wept like a baby.
I said, please, please let it work
like this book says it's supposed to.
And the Holy Spirit said to me,
but you've just learned how to make the other way work.
And I had, I had gotten to the point where it was starting to work.
He said, you're hearing me clear enough.
I said, I don't care.
I want what the book says.
And I'm pleading, please.
That night was the last night I ever used that book.
It just like a key flipped.
And from that point forward
occasionally he'll give me a name
or a category they're working in.
Most times I don't care.
You're here, you don't belong here.
I'll pray with the person.
We're going to submit ourselves to God.
We're going to resist the devil.
And I don't care what this is, it's out.
And in the name of Jesus, it's out.
He said, well, why did it have to get to that point?
I don't know.
That to me was Holy Ground.
It was like Bethel with Abraham.
I don't know for sure.
Why does he say earnestly desire spiritual gifts?
To where you're craving them.
Why do some stories you hear about missionaries
or ministers across seas
to where they finally get to the point
they say, God, if you don't give us a revival here,
I'm dying.
I have no reason to live.
Why does it have to get to that point?
And then all of a sudden it breaks.
I don't know.
But there is something in Scripture about that.
I don't know how it works to that way,
but that's how it works.
So I am no longer bound to that.
I haven't been that 18 months.
Well, it didn't even go the full 18 months
on the book thing, but it was a few months
and it felt like an eternity.
And I'll be the first one to say that
the way God taught me was a very, very weird experience.
A number of things I still don't understand.
But when I come from deliverance,
I come from everything I saw and I learned
coming through that time.
So I tend to see it differently than other people do.
And since we're talking about this and this is a class,
I'm going to be coming from that direction.
But there was a lesson I learned
as I watched over the years.
And this is the first time I'm speaking
about this publicly.
I told Mary three or four days ago
she knew nothing about this.
And God said, now it's time to get it on record.
So there's some things he wants on record
and this is one of them.
Even though good things
over that period of my life,
I mean, I saw more miracles,
physical miracles in that period of my life
than I've probably seen in the rest of it.
And we'll talk about that at a different time.
But because it was such a bad experience,
I grew to despise it.
It was such a bad experience.
And I can look back on it and undeniably
say that the anointing of the spirit
was hugely at work because many, many times
I saw supernatural things and miracles take place
that are beyond description.
Nevertheless, I grew to despise the whole thing.
Many things I don't understand.
A few of them, the Lord has explained to me,
but there's still a few things I don't understand.
And it was coming at me so quickly
and I was struggling to see what was real,
what was not real.
Like, for instance, how can you be stabbed in the belly
but you weren't stabbed in the belly
and I saw you were stabbed in the belly
and I saw the knife come out of you.
But the clothes didn't get a rip.
You know, there's stuff you've got to process through
and there was no time to process through it.
So, as time went on, I began to despise it
and then above and beyond all that,
which helped that as I came under
severe criticism and judgment from numerous people.
A lot of bad things were said
and I was attacked, so to speak.
So, I had grown to despise the whole thing.
Of course, God will never let you stay in that mindset.
He's going to challenge that.
So, after a few years,
the Holy Spirit began telling me
that the Father looked at that period of time
as something very, very holy
and the anointing was very strong
and he did marvelous things.
Well, I struggled to believe that
because I was looking at other things.
So, before I make my point here at the end,
let me say this, lay a bit of groundwork.
There's happenings, there's moments,
there's times in people's life
that God considers extremely holy or anointed.
We don't always know what they are
even when they're happening to us,
but especially those of us looking in.
We don't always know what God is looking at
and saying, now that is holy ground.
But he does.
Like, for instance, the young man
who was accused of trying to come against
the Jewish nation and they drug him out
and they stoned him, Stephen.
That was an extremely holy event in God's eyes.
They didn't see it.
Paul did later.
Paul shaking off the poisonous snake into the fire.
He's like, well, it must have got a good bite on him
because he should be dead.
I don't know, that was kind of weird.
That was a holy anointed moment to God.
We don't always know what they are
and when they are,
but a lesson he taught me.
This first time I'm speaking on it,
this is 40 years.
I've never talked about this.
We dare not touch them
or the person they're happening through.
We dare not come against them
or what's happening.
If it's one of those things that God considers
a very holy thing,
if we come against them,
we're going to release a curse in our own life
and in our posterity that opens us up
to some very bad things happening.
That's why in Scripture we're commanded
not to judge anybody.
No, we're never supposed to judge anybody,
but boy, when you hit one of these
diamonds, so to speak,
and you judge it improperly,
it's not the person
that it's the anointing,
the holy thing that we're attacking
that gets us into trouble.
And now don't confuse something here
because people will confuse this.
I did to begin with because that's what I was taught.
Don't touch the anointed
and the anointed are ministers.
No, they're not.
The actual verse that says
when David was saying
why didn't you kill Saul?
Because he's anointed and you dare not touch
the anointed of God.
Saul was not a minister.
Saul was in government.
He was a king.
He was not a minister.
And you go through Scripture
but it's been applied to ministers
although you can't touch the anointed.
No, no, no, there's things God does in you
that are gems of
holiness and anointing
and we better leave it alone
from each other.
Well, they're not a minister.
I can say what I want.
I wouldn't if I were you.
So he started, this is how it came to me.
This is how he showed me the first time.
There was one man after this
thing was over and
I had lost my marriage and blah, blah, blah.
There was one man from the church
who made an appointment with me and sat me down
and just severely
criticized me and judged me to my face.
Just gutted me.
I like the guy, trusted the guy.
He had been on board and I liked him
but he just basically gutted me.
It took a number of years
and then this is how the demonic realm works.
They will get the rope around your neck
and rather than pulling it right away
they'll just feed you a line.
And they'll let you get
a number of years away
from what gave them the right
to put the noose around your neck
so that when they
tighten that baby
and take you out
the chances of you
tying what's happening there
to 3, 4, 5, 10,
12 years, whatever
earlier, without God's help
it's an impossibility.
You'll never make the connection.
So you'll never find the core
you have to deal with.
So this was a number of years later
after this was all over
I left, we were living in Colorado
this, that and the other.
This man developed either
liver cancer or pancrease cancer.
He was young, he was in his 50s
and picture of health
all his life.
Picture of health.
And he died of it.
Very quickly, he didn't take them long
he died of it.
And he wasn't gone
a few weeks.
And the Lord one day right out of the blue
he said that did not have to happen to him
that was not my will.
He said
when he attacked you
he attacked something very holy
and he let a spirit in
that eventually killed him.
I didn't believe it at first.
Nah
I don't buy it.
And then
didn't take too much longer
something else happened
a lady who had
had
severely attacked me during that
after it was over, after I had
left and was gone
severely attacked me
she died in a horrible way of cancer
she was gone
and the Lord said
she didn't have to die that way
she attacked you
and it's not about you
it's about what she attacked
she attacked a very holy anointed thing
and she should have kept her mouth shut
she didn't know
but she did it anyway, she didn't believe my word
because he basically says
we shouldn't attack each other
I think most Christians know that
and I said you're going to have to give me Scripture on this
he did, this is the Scripture he gave me
2 Samuel 6 verse 6 and 7
this is David bringing
the ark
back to Israel
after it was stolen
when they came to the threshing floor of Nikon
Uzzah reached out his hand to hold the ark
because the oxen had stumbled
now remember you could not touch the ark
or it would kill you
the Lord's anger burned against Uzzah
because of his irreverent act
therefore struck him down
and he died there beside the ark of God
I said okay
what does that mean
he said the anointing of God
is very real
and when you touch it the wrong way
it will kill you
you touch it the right way it will give you life
he happened to touch it the wrong way
and it killed him
he said what happened back there
There was very holy to me. And when people touch that anointing the wrong way, they open
themselves up to the other kingdom and it'll kill them. It'll destroy them. If not kill
them, it'll destroy them. And I watch people, bankruptcies happen. I watch people, finances
just turn around on a dime to where it just looked like everything was going the wrong
way. I watch not necessarily in the person who had bad mouthed me, but in their lineage,
horrible accident kind of things happened that would stay with them the rest of their life.
And I'm not thinking about it. And just one day the Lord would say, that didn't have to happen. That
was not me. So I have learned a lesson out of this. Of course, then a false sense of guilt came out
of it. You know, now God's telling me people are dying because they bad mouthed me in something
that I don't fully understand what the world was going on. They're losing property. Their stuff is
happening. I said, why are you telling me this? This is not cheering me up. I mean, it's not like
I'm all excited. Oh yeah, bless God, they're getting theirs. It's like, I'd soon not know this.
And he quoted this verse to me. He said, I no longer call you servants because a servant
does not know his master's business. Instead, I've called you friends for everything that I learned
from my father I've made known to you. He said, that's what I'm telling you because I don't consider
you my servant. I consider you my friend. You deserve to know. So now I had a whole new
thing I had to work through. I say that to say this. If there's an area over the years,
been 40 years, and I've never talked about this, that I've watched others and seen
something that God very consistently considers holy and anointed its deliverance.
It's getting people set free from demonic forces. That is holy, holy ground.
It applies to all areas of where, you know, anointing, but I'm just focusing on this one.
I say all that to say this. Be very careful not to touch that in a critical judgmental manner.
You can talk to them about it if they're willing to talk to you. You can ask questions.
You can converse if they're willing to do that.
But don't judge them or what's happening. Because if you touch that arc in the wrong
attitude, it'll bite you. The same spirit of God that raised Lazarus from the dead
killed Ananias and Sapphira. It goes both ways. God uses everyone differently in
the realm of deliverance. Don't declare what is God and what is not God.
Don't ever attack someone and declare them wrong in what they're doing and judge them.
If we've done that or if we've touched other things that were holy and precious to God that he anointed,
folks, we got to repent and get that off our chart before it bears fruit.
You know, I shudder when I watch people criticize tongues or healing.
That's demonic. That's not of God. Blah blah blah blah. It's like, oh my goodness, you are touching the
anointing in a way you do not want to touch it. But I've never been allowed to say anything.
I don't know if you'll let me say anything now. It's just one of these things that the average
Christian knows better. But we're so full of ourselves and our own opinions and our own
judging that we go there anyway. And realize this, for those of you that are gods going to use
from time to time in deliverance stuff, people are going to criticize you.
People are going to judge you. People are going to declare you
not operating under God's power and eat your lunch, spit you out, and think they've done
God of service. You cannot develop an attitude with them.
Because the attitude or unforgiveness that starts in you, when you go to cast out a demon,
they will call you out on it. Because see, in the spirit realm, we emanate who we are. We're like
beings. And they can see what's in us and what's not in us. They will call you out in your sin
and tell you, you have no authority over me because you are this. I had it happen more
than once. It's very embarrassing. Like, oh my God, you got to bring that up now.
Don't say that, there's a board member here.
You cannot develop an attitude with the people who are against you
or say bad things to you because it will kill your ability to set people free.
Because the spirit will literally grab your sin and stay in the person because of your sin.
Well, there's a whole big realm of that. That was one of the problems. I didn't understand
why things were not working for me to begin with. Because I'll just say this and we're
done. We're longer than I expected, but we're done. I don't think anybody got bored,
hopefully not. To begin with, when it didn't work right, I got angry.
It made me mad. You ugly, foul, good for nothing, demonic spirit. I hate you. I just...
and they'd sit there and smirk. I was feeding them energy through my sinful attitude.
And until I got into a deliverance session with the man who was
my mentor, I thought, ah, this is going to be good. I'm going to watch how he does it.
And he sat in front of them and a demon would come up and he'd say, you know,
God loves you. And it's so sad that we have to meet this way
because I don't want to do you any harm. I have nothing against you.
But you're hurting this person. He came across with such love, such calmness,
but such authority. And these demons would sit there. Yes, sir. No, sir.
I'm under authority too. I can't leave, but you're going to have to leave
because see the true God and then he explained it to them.
And I don't want to put you in pain, but if you don't leave, I'm going to.
And you will get out. And he's just calm, soft spoken. And I'm going, oh, that's how it's done.
So after it was all over, I talked to him. I said, you never got angry.
He says, you can't let yourself. He says, because unless it's one of those rare exceptions
where the righteous anger comes on you. And he says, when that happens, you'll recognize it.
He says, unless it's one of those rare exceptions, he said, it's not God getting
angry with them. It's you getting angry with them. And you'll get into emotions and into feelings
that are not God, but yet you're invoking the power of God to drive them out. While
you're operating in a system that's not God, he said, they won't listen to you.
And I'm gone. I'm going to remember that. That's good information.
So there's a number of things. There's just some little rules to the road that are very simple,
but we don't know them. You know, when I watch Christians get on a person trying to cast something,
they're not operating in God, but that was me. Why? Nobody ever pointed it out to me. You can't do that.
I was taught to hate the devil. We need to hate him. I mean, he's destroyed the world.
Oops. God is. And you know what? He loves the devil as much now as he did before he fell.
Has not changed. And out of that love is how God operates.
And that's what we have to learn. That's what I had to learn. That tripped me up for quite a while
because I thought, I'm going to, you know, charismatic. We're going to fall in the power of God.
And this thing's going to obey me and spitting and fulmin' and yelling and screaming.
And they mock you. So we're going to learn some things. But the main thing I want to
leave you with is, Holy Spirit, bring back to our remembrance any areas where we would have
touched the anointing that was happening in someone, some ministry, some person, some somebody.
The wrong way. And we criticized and we condemned and we judged and declared this thing is not God.
Lord, we want to unhook from that as quickly as we can. It's not our job.
They're not our servant. They don't answer to us.
So, Lord, bring anything back to our remembrance we need to know and forgive us. We send it away.
It's between you and them. We will try to edify each other, help each other, support each other,
do what we can to help each other, move forward in whatever you've asked us to do.
But we're not, we're going to back away from this judging and criticizing because it,
it maims, it destroys, and it kills people. And we don't want to be part of that. We don't want it
happening to us and we don't want it happening to anybody in our lineage. In Jesus' name,
so Holy Spirit, we're asking right now, you speak to us, you talk to us before we meet again next
week. If there's some things we need to clean up with you, I pray everybody does it in Jesus'
name. Amen. Amen. Be blessed. Thank you for being so patient. That was a long run. Have a
good night.