WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.080 All right. Good evening to you and good evening to everybody who's joining us by live stream. 00:08.020 --> 00:15.300 We have class tonight. Next week we do not. And then the following week is the last class. 00:16.080 --> 00:22.660 So we're in trouble. Because we've got more material than we've got time to cover it. 00:24.320 --> 00:28.760 So there will be more explanation in the last book once that's put together 00:28.760 --> 00:34.820 then we'll probably get time to deal with in class because I just have numerous things to go over 00:34.820 --> 00:38.900 yet. And some are more important. We're going to try to hit those first. If we have a little bit 00:38.900 --> 00:47.520 time left over next class, we will deal with what we can there. This is night number 21. 00:48.640 --> 00:52.540 So the last night will be night number 22. So just stop and think about it. 00:53.560 --> 01:00.580 Most nights we didn't quit at 9. We quit at between 9, 9, 31 night. We almost went till 10. 01:01.240 --> 01:09.320 So we had at least two hours, maybe two and a half times 22. We've been at this for 50 hours 01:10.240 --> 01:15.360 and we still don't have everything covered. You know, we could keep going for a while. 01:15.800 --> 01:20.340 But hopefully we've got the most important things covered. The one thing... 01:20.940 --> 01:24.420 There was a few questions that came. So let me answer those first. 01:27.000 --> 01:32.300 So I have a question for you. You're far enough into this class now. You should catch this. 01:32.920 --> 01:37.420 Okay, so we had an incident last week and I'm going to keep it very neutral, 01:38.780 --> 01:43.920 but we had an incident last week where someone manifested. And I believe it was of 01:43.920 --> 01:52.800 God he wanted something dealt with. In that process, what was the thing I did not deal with 01:52.800 --> 02:01.800 that had to be dealt with? Bingo. Did everybody notice that? I never dealt with the strongman 02:02.320 --> 02:12.700 there last week. Which means rule of thumb, strongman never left. What left was a spirit 02:12.700 --> 02:18.380 that the Holy Spirit drove up to make us aware of some things and make the person aware of some 02:18.380 --> 02:25.140 things. But if you don't call the strongman out by name, strongman, and that's what I call 02:25.140 --> 02:29.520 by name. You know, if the Lord gives you a certain strongman, well then that's fine. 02:30.140 --> 02:35.400 But if you don't call him out by name, they won't leave. They just play the game with you. 02:36.440 --> 02:43.420 So I was wanting to make sure you caught that. And so between then and now, 02:44.740 --> 02:50.140 we went back into it because I talked to the person and the person said, 02:51.320 --> 02:56.760 there's just something there yet and it's not happy. Well, yeah, you just took a stick 02:56.760 --> 03:03.240 and beat on the hornet's nest and you killed a few of them. So what's left is not happy, 03:03.240 --> 03:07.120 you know? That's the best way to give the example of it. 03:08.020 --> 03:15.220 So we went back in and took care of the strongman situation in the kingdoms and that had to be 03:15.220 --> 03:22.800 dealt with. So I wanted to point that out because if not on the spot, at some point, 03:23.020 --> 03:28.240 if you're helping someone with deliverance stuff, you have to help them address the strongman. 03:29.200 --> 03:32.260 If you leave that, that's like leaving the Queen of the Hive. 03:34.320 --> 03:38.600 And you got to get the Queen out if you want the rest of the hive to be clean. 03:39.100 --> 03:44.280 So I just wanted to bring that up, make sure that everybody caught that. And if you didn't, 03:44.540 --> 03:47.660 from now on you will. A question came in from last week. 03:50.060 --> 03:54.660 Last week you said the girl had a spirit of unforgiveness. How did you know? 03:55.840 --> 04:01.900 How is that different than a person feeling someone has certain spirits that need to be 04:01.900 --> 04:08.320 cast out? And you were in the process of saying you don't like it being done that way. 04:08.620 --> 04:13.680 So that's a very good question. So let's answer the second question first. 04:14.240 --> 04:23.740 Yes, I'm not crazy about the concept of nothing's manifesting. We can't see anything in your 04:23.740 --> 04:33.160 eyes. There's nothing manifesting. But we start labeling all the things you have 04:33.900 --> 04:40.240 and where they came from and if they're generational or whatever. And again, I'm not saying that's not 04:40.240 --> 04:45.060 God. But like I said at the end of last week, especially if you're watching this online, 04:45.240 --> 04:52.580 I'm not saying that's not God. He does deliverance in every possible way you can think of. 04:53.840 --> 04:59.340 I had someone share with me and this one is like, I have not researched this. I trust them. I trust 04:59.340 --> 05:07.220 their input. But I had someone share with me today. They said, are you aware of the minister 05:07.220 --> 05:13.440 in Africa who does deliverance and gets people healed and things like that and how he does it? 05:13.900 --> 05:17.840 I said, well, I've heard of people in Africa. I've seen some guys in Africa do things. What 05:17.840 --> 05:29.020 are you talking about? Well, this particular guy kind of, the people either sit down or lay down 05:29.020 --> 05:40.420 or whatever, any squats and farts in their face. Super weird. But the signs and wonders 05:40.420 --> 05:47.500 following are unbelievable. It's just like, yeah, that would take some growth in my part 05:47.500 --> 05:54.620 to do that to someone. Much less. I said, so what's the deal? And they said they're coming from 05:55.340 --> 06:07.680 all over the world. And he prays over them, does that. Okay, well, maybe washing in a dirty river 06:07.680 --> 06:15.000 or putting mud in the eyes isn't as far out as some things we could do. But anyway, I say 06:15.000 --> 06:22.620 that to say this, God will do what he'll do many different ways of deliverance. So I'm not saying 06:22.620 --> 06:32.280 that one way is wrong. I'm saying if you do that one way, make sure your skills are honed. You 06:32.280 --> 06:40.260 hear the voice of God very clearly or damage follows it. You know, that's all, that's my 06:40.260 --> 06:46.320 only point. So their question was, you don't like that, but yet how is what you did was different 06:46.320 --> 06:51.060 because you said the person had a spirit of unforgiveness. Well, there's a couple three 06:51.060 --> 07:00.060 differences. One is, there was a spirit manifesting. Two is, it didn't want to go. 07:01.580 --> 07:06.200 You know, commanded it numerous times, it didn't want to go. So when you hit that block, 07:06.620 --> 07:11.520 it's like, well, there's something deeper here that God wants us to see. So that's when I started 07:11.520 --> 07:16.100 saying, I called the person back. I don't want to talk to you anymore. I want the person back. 07:16.220 --> 07:20.220 I want to talk to the person. While I was saying that with my mouth, inside I was saying, Holy 07:20.220 --> 07:27.780 Spirit, what is this? And as the person came back, the Holy Spirit told me unforgiveness. 07:31.380 --> 07:37.300 So in the aspect of getting information from the Holy Spirit, it's the same thing. 07:38.160 --> 07:45.680 In the application of it, it's totally different. In that, we were having a manifestation. 07:46.700 --> 07:54.080 We were having one who was bound determined to stay because from its perspective, there was 07:54.080 --> 08:00.160 sin ground there. It still had the right to stay. But there will be times the Lord will give you 08:00.160 --> 08:04.900 names. He'll give you categories. That's a category. Unforgiveness is a category. He'll give you 08:04.900 --> 08:08.080 names. He'll give you categories so forth. You've got to use that. That's information. 08:10.740 --> 08:15.300 But for me to, you know, pick somebody who's just sitting here and looking at me saying, 08:15.380 --> 08:18.600 you know, I don't know if I have demons or not. Well, let's pray for you. And then I 08:18.600 --> 08:24.980 list off 15 things and you're not having any manifestations. You're kind of normal. 08:28.220 --> 08:34.020 And we're going to submit to, well, yeah, evidently all these bad things are in my life or happen to 08:34.020 --> 08:39.840 me or whatever. Nah, nah. No. If you got a demon, we're going to know you got a demon. 08:41.580 --> 08:45.460 And there's lots of people with demons that don't know they got them. 08:46.600 --> 08:52.180 And the first way you see it's in the eyes. But anyway, so then how did you know it was 08:52.180 --> 08:59.320 Spirit of Unforgiveness? Because that's what Holy Spirit told me. The manifestation aspect is huge. 09:00.820 --> 09:08.820 That's the big differentiator for me. Now, I wasn't in here. I was greeting people on 09:08.820 --> 09:14.020 Sunday morning when that one came to the surface. So I don't know what the immediate 09:14.020 --> 09:20.020 manifestation was. There was three people involved. You and do you remember what that 09:20.020 --> 09:26.040 immediate manifestation was? She was grunting and it did not sound human. Okay. There was a 09:26.040 --> 09:31.480 non-human grunting voice coming out. Okay. Well, I'd call that a manifestation. 09:32.020 --> 09:40.620 Because the average woman doesn't do that. Now, there's some that might, but most of them 09:40.620 --> 09:46.500 don't, you know. So there was a prayer line. The person was in the prayer line and all of a 09:46.500 --> 09:53.660 sudden there's a manifestation. Okay. The manifestation aspect of going after something 09:53.660 --> 10:02.320 to me is huge. And in our... where did we talk about it? Let me find it here. It was the 10:02.320 --> 10:08.120 outline for casting out demons, number 15. That night we listed out, and it'll be in 10:08.120 --> 10:14.600 the book, we listed out the main manifestations I look for. Eyes are number one, grunting and 10:14.600 --> 10:24.460 sounds and voices, number two, contorting in the face. You know, it's things that are not 10:26.360 --> 10:32.400 normal. Sometimes things that are not physically possible. So we're not going to go back and 10:32.400 --> 10:36.680 review that. But if you're going to cast something out, a manifestation of some kind 10:36.680 --> 10:43.300 to know we have a problem, rather than presuming we have a problem because the person is having 10:43.300 --> 10:48.360 problem getting over lying. Well, they got a lying demon. They may not have anything of a demon. 10:49.120 --> 10:54.180 They may have to grow and mature. Not everything's a demon. You know, there's a lot of things 10:54.180 --> 10:58.580 in my life I'd like to get rid of by somebody praying over me. It takes all the work out of 10:58.580 --> 11:07.740 it. You know, it's just instant over. But you miss the growth, and it's a lot of work. And in that 11:07.740 --> 11:14.400 work you grow. It's called suffering. That's what 1 Peter 4, 1 and 2 is talking about. When we 11:14.400 --> 11:21.360 suffer in the flesh about sin, that's when we will get done with sin. So not every sin 11:21.920 --> 11:28.760 is a demon. Now, demons will work with sin, but you can get rid of the demon and the person 11:28.760 --> 11:36.140 still has a lying problem. They have to overcome. They have to grow. So manifestations, that's 11:36.140 --> 11:41.420 the direction I come from because it's over the years everybody has a demon. And especially 11:41.420 --> 11:45.980 the ones who are trying to make excuses for bad behavior. Well, Pastor, if you could 11:45.980 --> 11:49.640 cast the demon out of me, then I wouldn't be going to the neighbor's house and sleeping 11:49.640 --> 11:55.080 with him anymore. Well, I'm sure you got demons, but I'm not sure that's the cause of the problem. 11:55.260 --> 12:01.580 That's the result of the problem. There's a difference. And you say, why did you bring that 12:01.580 --> 12:09.700 up? Because I've literally had that said to me. You want to hear another one? Pastor, 12:09.940 --> 12:15.860 you need to... I have a spirit of either suicide or death or something because I have these 12:15.860 --> 12:21.640 strong urges. I need to get this out because I have these strong urges to kill my wife. 12:23.420 --> 12:28.320 And I need this demon cast out before it actually happens. I end up killing her. 12:29.260 --> 12:35.840 It's like, I think we got a deeper problem here. You know, I'm not saying when you get 12:36.860 --> 12:39.720 impulses like that, there's probably not spirits in the background going, 12:39.920 --> 12:43.620 hey, here's an opportunity. Let's help this guy out. 12:46.300 --> 12:50.920 But Christians, especially, you know, charismatic full-gauss people, like to find something to 12:50.920 --> 12:57.720 blame. So we're not at fault. Truth of the matter is we have to grow. And that is actually 12:57.720 --> 13:03.840 self-deliverance. Submit yourself to God in the areas you're being stubborn. And resist 13:04.340 --> 13:10.100 the stuff you're not supposed to be doing and the demons will flee. We have to grow. 13:10.100 --> 13:16.120 So anyway, second question, when you're casting something out, 13:17.840 --> 13:21.360 how do you do that? Okay, we've gone over it. I'm going to go over it real briefly. 13:22.440 --> 13:30.260 Number one, number one, someone has to take charge. This cannot be a group event. 13:31.860 --> 13:38.000 You can have, and so let's go back Sunday morning. Sunday morning, Mary had to leave 13:38.000 --> 13:41.360 and go speak at a different church. I'm out there greeting people. She comes by and she says, 13:41.400 --> 13:46.540 I have to leave, but there's a manifestation in there. I assign people to pray with the person, 13:46.660 --> 13:50.480 just be aware of it when you go in. So I thought, well, she's assigned people and I'm 13:50.480 --> 13:55.060 sure she's assigned good people. So I'll just keep greeting till it's time to go in. 13:55.320 --> 13:59.120 So then when I came in, I kind of stood over there and watched, and there was a group event 13:59.120 --> 14:04.420 going on. And I don't think it was a group event because you folks chose it to be a 14:04.420 --> 14:08.960 group event. It became a group event when people got involved who were not invited to be involved. 14:09.760 --> 14:17.960 Then it became a group event. So everybody standing around praying and telling it to leave 14:18.860 --> 14:24.500 rarely works. I'm just, my experience rarely works. You just torment the person 14:25.240 --> 14:33.180 and the spirit. It just rarely works. So when I saw that, so then I walked over and kind of 14:34.440 --> 14:38.100 spread the wave a little bit. I might have jumped the front of some of you if I did. I'm sorry. 14:38.700 --> 14:45.080 But I thought, well, we're gonna have to end this. And the person is, I don't know if they were in 14:45.080 --> 14:50.900 physical pain, but they were standing there shaking with this tormented look on their face. 14:52.840 --> 14:58.240 And it's like, yeah, see, that's exactly what I, if we can avoid that, sometimes you can't. 14:58.300 --> 15:03.100 But if we can avoid that, that's what I want to avoid. Because if you keep it a group event, 15:03.100 --> 15:05.920 that would have went on for as long as everybody kept praying. 15:06.300 --> 15:10.260 To be fair, the shaking and torment did start until you came into the room. 15:10.320 --> 15:11.740 Oh, really? Okay. 15:13.300 --> 15:18.120 So it's, okay. So the shaking and torment happened shortly before I came or when I 15:18.120 --> 15:22.640 showed up or whatever. So, okay. Well, that helps. That relieves me a little bit because 15:22.640 --> 15:30.560 it's like, this poor person is in torment here. We've got a... So, number one, someone has 15:30.560 --> 15:35.460 to take charge. When you take charge, others can support you. 15:37.440 --> 15:42.840 They support you by being in agreement with you. Get their hands off the person. 15:44.840 --> 15:49.960 There is no place in Scripture you find Jesus laid hands on someone to cast out a demon. 15:51.740 --> 15:55.340 It gets in the way, typically speaking, from my experience. 15:55.900 --> 16:00.000 So, number one, get the hands off. If you're going to be in charge, take charge. 16:00.440 --> 16:02.680 Get the hands off if there's people there with hands on. 16:03.860 --> 16:07.840 And step the people out who want to be in charge but never took charge. 16:08.940 --> 16:12.460 Just kind of say, okay, support me in this, but let me do this. 16:14.580 --> 16:19.800 Someone has to take charge. That means not only dealing with the person, that means dealing 16:19.800 --> 16:28.080 with the people. So, everybody knows their spot. And then you have to speak to the person 16:28.680 --> 16:37.380 and or the demon. You talk to them like a living person or entity. You don't just stand there 16:37.380 --> 16:42.700 and pray over them. You talk to them. Because first of all, you've got to figure out what 16:42.700 --> 16:54.840 you're talking to. Is the demon up? Or is the person there? Talk to them. It becomes spooky. 16:55.580 --> 16:57.660 How are we just going to take the word and we're going to engage this name again? 16:58.240 --> 17:07.000 And we never really talk to them. Are you okay? What's happening? What are you feeling? 17:08.120 --> 17:11.840 Well, if all you get back at that point is grunting and growling, 17:12.480 --> 17:16.860 you know the person either needs psychological help or they're not there. 17:17.600 --> 17:23.240 You're talking to a spirit. Well, now you've got some questions answered. So then the next step in 17:23.240 --> 17:29.220 my mind is get rid of the spirit and talk to the person. Many times they know what the demon is 17:29.220 --> 17:41.820 because they feel it. And whatever the category is, this thing just feels like death. Well, 17:41.820 --> 17:47.760 it feels like hate. Could be a spirit of hate then. It doesn't take rocket science to figure this out. 17:48.100 --> 17:51.520 But they have more information than you do unless the Holy Spirit gives it to you. 17:51.800 --> 17:55.960 So you want to talk to them and then you just want to lead them through James 4 or 7. 17:57.480 --> 18:01.800 And put the whole thing together in a bundle. And if they feel like it's hate, we'll add 18:01.800 --> 18:06.300 that in. We're talking about spirit of hate or suicide or whatever. Just add that in. But 18:06.300 --> 18:11.220 don't focus just on that. Put it all in a bundle and then cast it out. 18:13.020 --> 18:19.180 Commend it to go. Once you've led them through James 4 or 7, that's what makes it easy. 18:21.960 --> 18:29.000 For instance, last week, that could have went on and went on and went on and went on. 18:29.340 --> 18:36.300 And when I first started, that's what I didn't know. And it went on and it went on. 18:36.600 --> 18:41.400 And you're trying to overpower them. And man, maybe I don't have the faith. 18:41.400 --> 18:46.380 Maybe I didn't pray and fast enough. Maybe I didn't. And you're trying to overpower the spirit. 18:47.180 --> 18:54.200 That's the hard way. Command the spirit to back down. I want to talk to the person who is the 18:54.200 --> 18:59.200 rightful owner of that temple. You're not your trespasser, so you come second. 18:59.660 --> 19:04.220 I want the rightful owner to talk to the person. Lead them through James 4 or 7. 19:05.620 --> 19:09.220 And it just strips all the power away. You're dealing with personal sin. You're 19:09.220 --> 19:14.300 dealing with generational stuff. You're cutting that off. And then, as you noticed last week, 19:15.100 --> 19:23.420 once that happened, there was no issue at all to get rid of it. Go. And it left. 19:25.680 --> 19:31.860 So that's very important. That's in a nutshell how you do it. We did it. We went through 19:31.860 --> 19:41.760 that a couple of times previous. Again, that same night, number 15, which was actually March 14th. 19:42.360 --> 19:46.260 We went in it. We went through that step by step, piece by piece. 19:49.600 --> 19:54.220 So I will say this in the future, because we've done this class. We've gone through this 19:54.220 --> 19:57.900 class. And not everybody was able to be here personally. Some of you joined us online 19:57.900 --> 20:03.100 and have gone through everything. But in the future, one of the qualifications for 20:04.700 --> 20:09.020 casting out demons at Word of Life, and I think Mary's going to do the same thing at TBO, 20:09.680 --> 20:15.380 is you have to have at least gone through this class. So there's some format where we're 20:15.380 --> 20:20.780 on an agreement and we're all approaching it from the same direction. Otherwise, it's like, 20:21.440 --> 20:28.400 it won't happen here. It would do whatever you want on your time, but here it just won't happen here. 20:30.820 --> 20:37.860 So with that part of introduction said, do we have any questions that need answering right now? 20:38.020 --> 20:44.140 We do. And I forgot to grab the mic. It's still over there. So if you could do that. 20:44.740 --> 20:50.420 Sam, did you enjoy running the mic last week? Okay. So how about you meet back there 20:50.880 --> 20:55.140 and we'll hand it over to you. Whichever one it's not turned on, I don't think. 20:55.460 --> 21:02.500 She enjoyed it. Yeah. So we'll let her be the mic runner. And it was the young lady back in the 21:02.500 --> 21:12.620 corner that Dave Rogers brought with tonight. Very young. Yes. He's getting old as dirt, 21:12.620 --> 21:23.800 but she's really... The question that we had is, last week we noticed you took her hand and Dave said, 21:23.980 --> 21:28.520 we were talking about it and he said, I think that you did that so she didn't bolt. Yep. And 21:28.520 --> 21:33.920 then tonight you said, don't touch them. So that was under the direction of the Holy Spirit. 21:34.160 --> 21:40.000 Okay. Keep your hands off unless he says, do something. Like for instance, 21:40.960 --> 21:50.960 one that had happened years ago when the person was being drug out of the building 21:52.000 --> 21:56.720 by... I shared this way back towards the beginning. Person was being drug out of the 21:56.720 --> 22:03.800 building by spirit and they were literally leaning forward fighting and sliding backwards 22:03.800 --> 22:13.400 and there was nobody behind them. There I touched the person and I grabbed on and prayed and rebuked 22:13.400 --> 22:21.220 and everything at the same time. So again, you have to be led by the spirit. That's the key 22:21.220 --> 22:27.940 to the whole thing. The immediate impulse of charismatic or faith people is lay hands on 22:28.740 --> 22:34.440 and that can cause more problems. You say, how can that cause more problems? Okay. So let me just give 22:34.440 --> 22:40.260 you first thing that usually happens. We have someone struggling with the spiritual thing. 22:40.380 --> 22:43.880 Something's manifesting and you've got five people coming up and laying hands on. 22:44.800 --> 22:51.360 I don't know what those five people have been into, but that spirit will know immediately 22:51.360 --> 22:56.860 if one of them is in disobedience or rebellion someplace. And now you're actually 22:56.860 --> 23:02.300 dealing with this person's demons and that person's demons because those demons link up. 23:02.820 --> 23:09.660 They're of the same kingdom and they're going to do everything they can together to try to keep 23:09.660 --> 23:18.020 this person from getting free. That's usually the biggest thing. Just keep your hands off 23:18.020 --> 23:21.680 unless the Holy Spirit tells the person who's leading this. 23:23.700 --> 23:30.200 You know, somebody's got to be in charge, but that is why, yes, he was right in that. 23:31.820 --> 23:39.500 The person was getting ready to get out of here. And I took the hand, they were sitting 23:39.500 --> 23:42.940 and I got in front of them and I got real close. If you watch the video again, 23:43.000 --> 23:47.020 I got real close and held the hand. It's difficult to stand up when someone's 23:47.020 --> 23:52.480 right there and they're sitting. So you've got the hand. So even if they turn, 23:52.540 --> 23:56.080 try to get out the side. If you give a little jerk, they lose their balance. They're back down. 23:56.880 --> 24:02.500 You know, so it's just a preventative measure of, oh, this person's going to want a bolt. Well, 24:02.820 --> 24:06.700 let's help make sure that doesn't happen. The Holy Spirit said, just grab her. 24:07.420 --> 24:11.140 So that's what that was about. Were you going to say something? 24:16.610 --> 24:24.270 Um, so back to when one person's praying over them and another person touches them. 24:25.150 --> 24:28.010 Would that be why there was such a disruption? 24:31.070 --> 24:37.370 Give me more clarity. In my situation where there was such a disruption where I was like, 24:37.470 --> 24:39.990 whoa, something happened. And then I opened my eyes and I was like, oh, 24:40.270 --> 24:43.770 Oh, you're talking back weeks. You're not talking last week. 24:43.770 --> 24:45.370 Sunday. Sunday. 24:46.270 --> 24:48.850 I'm trying to be vague. I'm sorry. Okay. 24:50.490 --> 24:54.050 I'm trying to be vague and ask you a question about Sunday when I spoke with you. 24:54.230 --> 24:56.010 Yes. Without being. Yes. 24:56.530 --> 24:59.110 And it was similar to what happened weeks ago. 24:59.590 --> 25:02.050 Okay. Correct. Am I right with that? 25:03.450 --> 25:05.590 Well, what you talked to me about weeks ago when 25:07.650 --> 25:10.150 I'll try to be vague with you and we'll figure this out. 25:10.890 --> 25:12.470 I'm trying to be so vague. 25:12.770 --> 25:17.470 When you were at the front. No, it wasn't you. My mistake. It was someone else. 25:18.410 --> 25:21.150 Who is, is I stay vague. 25:24.170 --> 25:26.710 So let me give you their experience. Okay. 25:26.990 --> 25:30.390 And then I believe I'm on the same page with you. That's why I thought it was you. 25:30.630 --> 25:30.830 Wonderful. 25:31.130 --> 25:35.250 They said that there was a prayer line we had this number weeks back. There was a prayer 25:35.250 --> 25:39.450 line we had. And when they were coming to the front, the power of God was on them so 25:39.450 --> 25:45.570 strong. They didn't know if they'd make it. They thought they'd go down in the aisle on the way. 25:45.670 --> 25:48.690 They got here. So rather than trying to fight it, they just got down in their knees and started 25:48.690 --> 25:56.250 praying until we go down the prayer line. And again, uninvited, someone came and laid hands on 25:56.250 --> 26:02.270 them. And when that person laid hands on them, they said the power of God instantly 26:02.750 --> 26:07.450 vanished. It was just like it got sucked away. It was gone. 26:10.550 --> 26:15.870 Similar, right? Is that where we're talking? Yeah. So that would be why all of a sudden it was just 26:15.870 --> 26:21.510 like, whoa, something changed. And then you just like adjust. Yep. Yep. 26:26.210 --> 26:31.890 Laying on of hands is a holy thing. We kind of take it as a, let's just lay on hands and 26:31.890 --> 26:36.650 let them know where we support them. No. Laying on of hands in a prayer situation is 26:36.650 --> 26:44.510 actually a holy thing. And what we're in the, in from scripture side, what we're doing is the 26:44.510 --> 26:52.330 hands carry the anointing and we're laying on of hands. So the anointing transfers. Well, the 26:52.330 --> 27:00.210 problem is if there's something broken or really off in the person when they lay on of hands, 27:00.720 --> 27:07.670 you not only are susceptible to God's anointing transferring, you're susceptible to whatever 27:07.670 --> 27:16.210 they've got. So it's, it's not a nice thing to do. It is something that is holy. And we have to 27:16.210 --> 27:28.150 respect it as such. So I'm going to try to say this properly here. Because we're, because 27:28.150 --> 27:34.950 laying on the, laying hands on, right, which is a holy thing. Example me, right? Not perfect. 27:35.910 --> 27:41.710 Probably got some junk in me, right? But still, like, is it because God's holy spirit was like, 27:41.930 --> 27:44.610 I'm going to anoint you to do this thing. I'm going to tell you this thing and 27:45.370 --> 27:52.550 you're going to direct it, then things don't transfer. But then when, does that make sense? 27:52.850 --> 27:57.790 Yes. I'll add to it. Yes. Everything we do is supposed to be under the direction of 27:57.790 --> 28:06.050 holy spirit. Yeah. You know, it's, it's one of the things we're going to teach in the prayer team, 28:06.690 --> 28:11.970 which might also say now, when you get an, when you get something from God, 28:13.630 --> 28:19.070 there's three questions you need to ask yourself. Number one, what am I supposed to do with this? 28:20.930 --> 28:26.230 Because many times he'll tell us something and we assume we know what he wants us to do. 28:26.230 --> 28:32.070 We can miss him by a thousand miles. What am I supposed to do with this? Anything? 28:32.910 --> 28:38.310 If it's about a person, am I supposed to get involved? Number two. 28:39.670 --> 28:43.830 In other words, I've got information. Do I need to talk to him? Do I need to ask if they need 28:43.830 --> 28:49.190 prayer? Am I supposed to get involved? And then number three, am I supposed to get involved 28:49.830 --> 28:56.370 now? Because there's times the Lord will tell us something that we sit on for six months 28:57.290 --> 29:04.070 while we're praying for them and they're kind of cooking, getting ready to receive it. Where if 29:04.070 --> 29:11.910 you jump in early, you botched it all up. And, and the thing is we, we, we get a piece of information 29:11.910 --> 29:16.950 from God, but we never get the rest of the story. I shouldn't say never. Too often we don't 29:16.950 --> 29:21.470 get the rest of the story. We just assume, oh, this is what that means. I should do this. 29:21.930 --> 29:25.950 And that is especially true in prayer lines. Well, why would he tell me something if I'm 29:25.950 --> 29:29.090 praying for someone and all of a sudden he downloads his information to me? Why would 29:29.090 --> 29:34.970 he do that if he doesn't want me to deal with it now? Because at some point he might want 29:34.970 --> 29:40.150 to dealt with. And he may want to use you. He may be encouraging you to pray for them. 29:40.870 --> 29:44.230 He, there could be numerous reasons. It doesn't mean you deal with it right now. 29:47.750 --> 29:54.770 So did we answer your question kind of being vague? I'd say so. Okay. If we weren't so vague, 29:54.810 --> 30:00.090 it would help. But that's okay. Any other questions before we move on? 30:01.630 --> 30:05.810 Well, maybe. Maybe, maybe a question up front. Let's try it. See if there is. 30:06.410 --> 30:15.290 Can you bring the mic, please? I was thinking when you were ministering on Sunday, 30:16.310 --> 30:21.890 did you deal with a strong man right away? Yes. On Sunday I did. That's what I thought 30:21.890 --> 30:27.050 I was hearing. And I was just, I just wanted to make sure that that was it. So then... 30:28.930 --> 30:34.150 Because what was manifesting was not manifesting in such a way that it needed immediate 30:35.170 --> 30:39.210 attention. You could tell it was there. But it's like, well, let's just not mess 30:39.210 --> 30:42.570 around. Let's just go after a strong man. Well, I was trying to listen to everything 30:42.570 --> 30:48.960 you were saying without, you know, and I thought, I thought that I just wanted to make sure that that... 30:49.730 --> 30:57.070 So, and, and my hats off to those of you that immediately got involved. Excellent. That's 30:57.070 --> 31:05.470 what we need. Just a if, if not if, it probably will happen when it happens again. 31:07.510 --> 31:12.290 And a few of you are assigned or whatever. First thing you need to determine is who's 31:12.290 --> 31:17.870 going to lead this. Just talk amongst yourself. Are you going to do it? Am I going to do it? Who's 31:17.870 --> 31:28.880 going to do this? Okay. So, by the time I came in and clarified this for me, Crystal, if I'm off, 31:29.280 --> 31:36.640 by the time I came in, you had kind of backed up. You were, well, moved to the side and kind of 31:36.640 --> 31:42.800 backed up. You had your hand out towards her. So, yeah, I was watching because from my 31:42.800 --> 31:49.380 perception, the group had gathered, which you probably felt, well, now we got a problem. 31:50.060 --> 31:53.660 You probably couldn't, didn't know what do I do with this because we're always afraid of fending 31:53.660 --> 31:59.320 people. Well, Mary was, afterwards I told Mary about it. She was very frustrated. She said, 31:59.380 --> 32:07.560 I called three people. Why did the rest show up? Because that's what Christians do. We don't 32:07.560 --> 32:15.100 listen because we're, can I be really blunt? We're that arrogant. Well, I know Mary didn't call me, 32:15.540 --> 32:19.760 but I can help in this situation. If she didn't call you, wait your turn. 32:22.480 --> 32:30.600 Okay. We had people who didn't attend the class. So, she did put her in charge. 32:37.760 --> 32:45.060 Okay. So, and we can discuss this a little bit. We'll need the mic runner to be running. 32:46.660 --> 32:50.540 So, number one, who's going to lead this? Who's going to take the lead? That doesn't mean 32:50.540 --> 32:57.960 everybody else is useless. I mean, they can make suggestions. Do we deal with the strong 32:57.960 --> 33:02.680 man? Let's get this thing down. Because sometimes the first few times you do it, 33:02.760 --> 33:05.560 you're going, okay, I know there's something I'm supposed to be doing now, but I don't 33:05.560 --> 33:09.440 remember what it is, you know. But if you took the lead, we'll take the lead 33:10.700 --> 33:20.500 and stay there if at all possible. Because again, it's not a show of strength thing. It's a faith 33:20.500 --> 33:25.280 thing. If you're standing there and it's like, okay, I'm going to do this, and then you 33:25.280 --> 33:35.000 start floundering, go ahead, you take over. That being knows you are not, you're in doubt now. 33:35.360 --> 33:41.960 I'm not sure I can do this. You do it. And they're already looking for the ranks to break. 33:43.280 --> 33:50.540 So, you know, if you can stay intact, stay intact, that's how we all learn. 33:50.940 --> 33:54.580 If you absolutely know the Holy Spirit's telling me to back off, then say that. 33:54.580 --> 33:58.160 I just feel like the Holy Spirit's telling me to back up. Who wants to take charge? 33:58.980 --> 34:01.420 So settle that. So someone's in charge. 34:04.120 --> 34:08.340 So Mary had gestured for me to come up. I was just standing in the back, you know. 34:08.560 --> 34:10.460 Mine in your own business. Mine in my own business. 34:12.160 --> 34:17.860 So she had gestured for me to come up. So I came up in front of the lady or in front of the 34:17.860 --> 34:24.920 person and she was grunting. And then Mary came back for just a second and said, 34:25.080 --> 34:32.620 liver. That confused me because then I'm thinking healing but grunting. So I'm thinking about 34:32.620 --> 34:38.020 what I'm supposed to be doing. So I start praying for a liver and then she began to 34:39.100 --> 34:46.980 manifest a little more burp, really a lot of burping and grunting. And I told it to be 34:46.980 --> 34:52.400 quiet, but I didn't think to command it to go down because I just, the music's loud. I don't know, 34:52.460 --> 34:56.560 it's different. It's different when I'm watching you do it. I know, it's different. And that's how we 34:56.560 --> 35:04.640 learn, you know. The music's loud. I can't hear the Holy Spirit at all. I know. And I'm feeling 35:04.640 --> 35:08.260 kind of abandoned by Mary because at first I thought it was just like a placeholder 35:08.260 --> 35:14.640 and Mary was going to come back. She did not come back. So I'm realizing, oh, this is me. 35:17.200 --> 35:23.440 So I'm thinking about the steps and obviously it's manifesting. I'm moving close. I am not fearful at 35:23.440 --> 35:26.740 all. You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'm kind of going through my steps, but then I just lost the 35:26.740 --> 35:31.480 steps. I just, um, and other people are gathered around and that, you know, I don't know, I'm 35:31.480 --> 35:37.420 kind of slow thinking. Anyway, I move slowly through my brain. Slow witted is what I call 35:37.420 --> 35:42.100 myself. So you're the lead. If you lose your step, you could easily turn to someone and say 35:43.100 --> 35:47.000 where are we supposed to, where do we start with this? Because the thing that probably threw 35:47.000 --> 35:52.940 you a little bit was the liver. Yes. And it's like, so I'm thinking healing and so, but, but she had 35:52.940 --> 35:58.380 taken my hand. So I put my hand on her shoulder, but Mary had said, I think she actually said lay 35:58.380 --> 36:03.200 hands on. So it was a little bit of a confused situation. Confused situation. But I was 36:03.200 --> 36:07.180 definitely the lead and I definitely didn't do my job. And I went home and studied up 36:07.180 --> 36:13.360 and I'm going to memorize this job. I wish I had a do do over on that one. Oh, you'll get a do over. 36:13.480 --> 36:19.040 Maybe not on that one, but you'll get a do over. As I was going to say, as you've probably noticed, 36:19.160 --> 36:24.200 and I, it could be the result of, okay, now we've been studying all winter and the Lord's 36:24.200 --> 36:28.300 saying, okay, now let's help some people. That's why things are manifesting more. 36:28.720 --> 36:34.200 Then again, it could also be this last day's push because this is happening around the 36:34.200 --> 36:39.100 country. This isn't just happening here. This is happening all over. We have a movie out about it. 36:40.480 --> 36:47.320 So this is not unique to us. This could be the Holy Spirit just stepping in and doing 36:47.320 --> 36:52.360 some things to help clean some people up, which to me, it's awesome because we got a 36:52.360 --> 36:55.580 head start and we learned some things. So let's jump in on the flow and do it. 36:56.540 --> 37:02.780 But your point is exactly right. When you're doing it for real, it's different. 37:03.520 --> 37:08.960 And it takes some practice. And so you're standing there going, and to me, it's funny 37:08.960 --> 37:14.940 because I've been down this road. It's like, oh yeah, I remember that. And here's what's worse. 37:15.440 --> 37:20.560 You're not the pastor. So when the pastor's standing there, you can't remember what to do 37:20.560 --> 37:24.420 or figure it out or, oh man, this is going to go bad. You know, then doubt starts coming 37:24.420 --> 37:27.960 and unbelief. And it's already grunting. Pretty soon it's going to start 37:27.960 --> 37:32.520 doing who knows what. And I can't control this. And I'm the pastor and everybody's 37:32.520 --> 37:35.520 thinking, our fearless leader is going to do, I'm going to make a fool out of myself. 37:35.740 --> 37:41.860 This thoughts start bombarding you. And I'm sure you had a few of them bombard you too. 37:42.220 --> 37:45.560 I was doubting what my authority was. I'm just like, do I have authority 37:45.560 --> 37:52.180 to do anything here? I'm glad you're honest. I did lean in and ask her some questions. 37:52.380 --> 37:57.240 She was able to tell me some things. And I said, I need you to work with me. 37:57.380 --> 38:00.240 I said, can you hear me? And she said, yes. And it was very normal. Yes. 38:00.240 --> 38:05.580 Yep. So I said, I need you to work with me. And I tried to go through James 4-7. 38:05.720 --> 38:12.320 I don't know if I did it right. And I tried to go through the steps, the five steps, but 38:13.520 --> 38:17.940 it is different when you're the one. It is. Yeah, it is. And I'm so glad you're 38:17.940 --> 38:20.940 honest enough to share exactly how it was from your perspective. 38:22.000 --> 38:27.400 Because almost all of us, there might be a rare exception, but all of us go through 38:27.400 --> 38:31.960 that same thing. Especially if it's to the point where it starts 38:34.180 --> 38:37.440 cussing at you, yelling at you, telling you you don't have authority, 38:37.900 --> 38:43.320 and you have no right in hearing and back away. This is, I own this person. And, you know, 38:43.840 --> 38:48.520 it just throws you in the ditch. It's like, what do I do with this? You know, 38:48.560 --> 38:52.400 kind of thing. That comes by experience. So thank you for sharing that perspective. 38:54.160 --> 39:00.960 When you have something you call like people get called up, how many is a good number for the group? 39:02.720 --> 39:06.860 I mean, you can have 20 standing there as long as they're just supporting. You just have to 39:06.860 --> 39:11.380 have somebody take the lead. Okay. Because you can have 20 people standing there with their 39:11.380 --> 39:16.480 hands out praying over the person and get nothing done. Or you can have one person there taking 39:16.480 --> 39:21.220 the lead working this through and get the person free. Because like when she called people 39:21.220 --> 39:24.640 to come, I was like, you look over there, it's like, okay, a bunch of people are moving or and 39:24.640 --> 39:28.940 whether they're all class or not, I guess I didn't pay attention. But, but it's just like, okay, 39:28.940 --> 39:36.340 we'll have to label it the demon team. We need the demon team. 39:41.640 --> 39:44.720 Anybody who's dozing off at that point, that'll bring them back out of it. 39:47.520 --> 39:53.940 All right, let's move on. Did you do anything? Okay, we're good. Let's move on and cover a few 39:53.940 --> 40:00.740 more things. There's a handout up here. Ken, could you help me? There's a handout says 40:00.740 --> 40:05.760 deliverance after care. I know we've got to go back and finish that other one. But 40:06.720 --> 40:11.240 because of what's happened, I think this one's really important to go over. 40:12.780 --> 40:22.000 When someone gets deliverance, what takes place after it's over can be really vital. 40:22.540 --> 40:30.680 And I learned this the hard way, the wrong way. Some people got hurt by the time I figured out 40:30.680 --> 40:34.300 because see, I was just so excited when they actually started listening to me. 40:35.180 --> 40:44.040 And they'd leave that I was all excited and rejoicing and never put myself in that person's 40:44.040 --> 40:51.220 mindset, in their emotional set. What they just came through, what are they feeling? 40:51.700 --> 40:57.040 In other words, I was lacking empathy. So I was all excited for me. Woo-hoo! Finally, 40:57.040 --> 41:07.580 it works. And they're confused. They're a little bit bewildered. And I learned it the wrong way. 41:07.720 --> 41:14.520 For instance, one that came back to me years later, there was a lady that early on I had been 41:14.520 --> 41:22.380 doing deliverance with. And I remember the night it happened vaguely. But I don't remember 41:22.380 --> 41:28.560 the storyline, what was happening. But I remember the spirit threatened me 41:30.100 --> 41:36.340 before I commanded it to go down. It threatened me. And it made some absurd 41:37.420 --> 41:40.580 while I was saying, you got to go down. I won't talk to her. 41:41.080 --> 41:45.960 It made some absurd threat that just struck me funny. 41:48.160 --> 41:54.000 So then it goes down and the lady's back. And I'm sitting there, I'm laughing. I said, 41:54.000 --> 41:58.660 this is hilarious. It's like, you actually said that. It's hilarious. 42:00.160 --> 42:06.000 Well, I didn't know she was blacked out. She had no idea what had just happened. 42:06.300 --> 42:10.860 It's like she just woke up from sleeping and, okay, I'm awake. What happened? 42:10.860 --> 42:15.500 And I'm sitting there roaring, you know, thinking this is hilarious. 42:16.660 --> 42:22.560 That offended her and probably rightfully so. I don't remember if I explained to her 42:22.560 --> 42:29.040 why I was laughing. I don't remember if she asked. But it was a lack of empathy on my part 42:30.520 --> 42:36.960 because I wasn't taking into consideration what is this person going through right now? 42:37.820 --> 42:44.620 Where are they at? So out of that comes this and we're going to go fairly quickly. I'm going to 42:44.620 --> 42:50.200 break down the aftercare part in two ways. The moments immediately after the deliverance has 42:50.200 --> 42:55.740 taken place in number two, the days following. And this is more of a deliverance session 42:55.740 --> 43:01.760 that you did with someone. The first one. How can we help the person the most in the 43:01.760 --> 43:06.040 moments following this deliverance session? Okay, the first thing you have to separate 43:06.040 --> 43:14.000 right here now, was this a calm deliverance session or was this more out there? Like for instance, 43:14.160 --> 43:18.340 last week Tuesday I would consider a little more out there. It wasn't really bad, 43:18.440 --> 43:22.180 but it was a little more out there compared to Sunday morning was fairly calm. 43:22.840 --> 43:31.740 There was no huge manifestation. A little, but it wasn't huge. If it's fairly calm 43:33.080 --> 43:37.000 right after it happens, the person is not near as traumatized. 43:39.580 --> 43:44.680 If it's in a public setting, you still have to, you know, because people get embarrassed and, 43:44.900 --> 43:51.720 you know, I can't say I blame them. They're coming to a prayer line to get hands laid on for 43:52.300 --> 43:57.420 something. And the next thing they know is they're grunting and growling and hissing and 43:57.960 --> 44:04.700 all the focus went and it's like, oh man, how'd I get into this? You know, so it can be embarrassing. 44:07.540 --> 44:17.320 So even in a case like Sunday morning, after it's over, are you okay? We will talk later, 44:17.980 --> 44:20.660 you know, because you're not going to stop and take 15 minutes to talk it through with them 44:20.660 --> 44:27.400 right there. We'll talk later. I'll check in on you later. If it's a fairly mild thing, 44:27.420 --> 44:33.920 it doesn't traumatize the person as much. It's much more easy. So you still need to do some 44:33.920 --> 44:44.200 aftercare. Put yourself in their place. You know, even a mild thing where there's some kind of 44:44.200 --> 44:51.760 random manifestation and it's in a public setting. Even in a mild situation like that, 44:52.100 --> 44:58.880 it's embarrassing. I mean, we didn't necessarily sign up for this. I don't know of anybody 44:58.880 --> 45:02.560 who signed up and said, I can't wait till I go to church and have a public demon, a public 45:02.560 --> 45:08.600 manifestation of a demon, you know. We didn't sign up for this. This is not what we got into it for, 45:08.700 --> 45:15.680 but Jesus is more concerned of getting us free. Now we as the body then come along and either 45:15.680 --> 45:20.720 make this a good experience or a bad experience for the person. Our focus here is to make it a 45:20.720 --> 45:27.680 good experience. So if it's a mild thing, then you deal with it according to that depth. 45:27.680 --> 45:33.740 If it's a major disruption, like it talks about there under number two. If it was a traumatic 45:34.380 --> 45:41.240 deliverance, more care needs to be taken. Empathy has to reign supreme here. Put yourself in the 45:41.240 --> 45:48.580 place of that person the best you can. How did the demon manifest? Did it speak or scream 45:48.580 --> 45:54.560 through them? Did it gain bodily control in any way? Did it convulse their body? Did it take 45:54.560 --> 46:00.800 over the function of the body so the person was not able to control themselves? And the more of 46:00.800 --> 46:06.900 these things that I have listed there, that happened, the more traumatic it is. For instance, 46:07.420 --> 46:13.500 just that third one. If that's the only one that happened, did it take over the function of the 46:13.500 --> 46:18.820 body so the person was not in control of their body anymore? They couldn't control their speech, 46:19.000 --> 46:23.700 they couldn't control their arms flailing, they couldn't control what was coming out of them, 46:23.700 --> 46:30.300 screaming, yelling, cursing, whatever. They're there trying to control themselves, but they can't. 46:30.460 --> 46:37.960 The control is taken away. Now, I've never been in that situation, but that has to be dramatizing. 46:39.040 --> 46:46.660 To be in your body and be totally out of control of it. Especially in a public setting, 46:46.840 --> 46:52.100 where if it's private it's not as bad, but in a public setting and you're hearing yourself 46:53.040 --> 47:00.820 say things, do things, that it's like, oh man, why can't I shut this down and you've got no control. 47:01.700 --> 47:07.360 That has to be traumatizing. I mean put yourself in the person's... I don't want that to ever happen. 47:07.940 --> 47:14.240 I'm sure none of us want that to ever happen. So you have to watch that. Did the demon take 47:14.240 --> 47:17.880 the person out of the room? See, that's what I tried to prevent and with the Lord's help 47:17.880 --> 47:24.640 that happened last Tuesday. And if they did get taken out of the room, did anybody stay with them? 47:26.660 --> 47:32.900 Because that sometimes happens where they get up and run out and nobody goes with them. 47:34.120 --> 47:40.060 So now you've got a... I think of one particular case. I wasn't in charge, but 47:40.600 --> 47:44.920 the person got up and ran out and then the person in charge said, let's just all turn 47:44.920 --> 47:51.320 and pray for them. And I'm going, that's good, but you need to send somebody who knows what 47:51.320 --> 47:57.880 they're doing after them because you just let a person leave the building with a demon up 47:59.220 --> 48:06.060 manifesting. At least get somebody to monitor it and watch it and follow the person and 48:06.060 --> 48:13.820 you know, help out. Did they regain control of their senses, their body finding themselves 48:13.820 --> 48:20.780 in a different location? That happens a lot. The blackout thing. I thought we were in 48:21.650 --> 48:26.680 the church. Why am I sitting in my car right now? 48:29.120 --> 48:35.820 And they go, how did I get here? What happened? See, that's traumatizing. That demands 48:36.760 --> 48:45.280 some aftercare to help the person from being really hurt or wounded. So what are the first 48:45.280 --> 48:50.820 things that are needed? Well, to the depth of what they went through, we have to reassure them. 48:52.100 --> 48:56.340 And the first thing they're going to say, is this ever going to happen again? Do not lie to 48:56.340 --> 49:10.680 them. It may. But we will win. And I will stick with you and I will help you. And there's people 49:10.680 --> 49:17.640 who will walk this out with you. Because if they just came through something traumatic, 49:17.640 --> 49:24.600 they're legitimately concerned it's going to happen again. And rightfully so. Talk them 49:24.600 --> 49:32.120 through what they may be feeling physically. There's adrenaline rush. That has its own symptoms. 49:33.220 --> 49:38.400 Besides if the thing's not left or you only got rid of a piece of it and the strong man's still 49:38.400 --> 49:46.320 there, they can feel all kinds of internal turmoil and swirling, so to speak. They're not a 49:46.320 --> 49:54.500 piece. They're not at rest. If they're seeing things. And I know we talked about this earlier, 49:54.760 --> 50:00.780 but many times when a person comes out of a deliverance session, they are seeing in the 50:00.780 --> 50:05.100 spirit realm because they're not free yet. Remember, there's only two ways for a human 50:05.100 --> 50:09.500 being to see in the spirit realm. It's either by the gift of the spirit, discerning of spirits, 50:09.680 --> 50:15.920 or it's by a demon spirit. And if they're still seeing in the spirit realm, and this was a 50:15.920 --> 50:19.300 deliverance setting, well now you know for a fact, they're not free yet. They're not clean. 50:19.720 --> 50:27.560 But it can be traumatizing to them. And you have to work with them. There's a physical aspect. 50:27.800 --> 50:32.720 There's a spiritual aspect. Have them take some deep breaths and let their body calm down. 50:32.820 --> 50:38.820 There's a physical aspect to this also. And encouraging them, reassuring them 50:39.620 --> 50:44.260 by dealing with the questions they have. You may not be able to do it right on the 50:44.260 --> 50:48.800 spot, but I will spend time with you. And we will talk about this till every question you have is 50:48.800 --> 50:56.720 answered. It helps. The last thing a person who's had a traumatic deliverance experience needs 50:56.720 --> 51:06.540 is abandonment. That is just to feel alone. Now they from the inside begin working on your 51:06.540 --> 51:11.260 mental like you're crazy. It probably never even happened. And these people all think 51:11.260 --> 51:15.080 you're nuts. And that's why nobody wants to have anything to do with you because you might go 51:15.080 --> 51:22.420 into one of these episodes again. And they just get tormented. They can't be left alone at that 51:22.420 --> 51:27.820 point. They need some reassurance. Address the feelings they have. You know, I'm a freak. 51:28.180 --> 51:40.480 They feel stupid, awkward fear, those kind of things. Once you get them calmed down 51:40.480 --> 51:48.040 because it's on two sides. Yes, 1A2B above. It's that whole list says how did the demon manifest? 51:48.600 --> 51:53.740 Did a speaker scream through them? Did it gain bodily control? Go down through. You don't have 51:53.740 --> 51:59.360 to take the book out and read it. It's just what happened to them? Were you there and sought? 52:00.640 --> 52:02.000 Were they aware of it? 52:02.000 --> 52:10.800 But you have to talk them through this because they're going to have a thousand questions. 52:13.040 --> 52:16.440 They may come back and say, I don't remember anything that happened. 52:16.940 --> 52:22.280 And if something bad happened, don't hide it from them. Because some wise persons are 52:22.280 --> 52:26.820 going to come along and say, that was really weird when you and they're going to spit it out. 52:27.620 --> 52:30.740 And the person is going to be traumatized again. They're going to say, I did what? 52:30.740 --> 52:33.120 Because they were blacked out. They don't remember. 52:37.160 --> 52:41.020 I have it written down to share some place tonight. Here's a good place to throw it in. 52:42.320 --> 52:48.900 So when this started happening in that first situation where I had become the pastor 52:49.460 --> 52:53.420 and I was thrown into that 18 to 24 months of just stuff, 52:54.620 --> 52:58.220 well, there was all kinds of people manifesting and all kinds of things were happening. 52:59.140 --> 53:04.520 I did not know self-deliverance very well. The only thing I knew is you got to get somebody 53:04.520 --> 53:10.060 there and cast it out for them. I didn't understand James 4.7. James 4.7 is a self-deliverance 53:10.060 --> 53:14.220 scripture. That's why it works so good when you're trying to deliver someone because 53:14.220 --> 53:17.140 actually they're doing self-deliverance. You're just adding your faith to theirs. 53:17.800 --> 53:21.040 You're leading them through James 4.7. They're submitting and renouncing. 53:21.640 --> 53:25.660 And okay, now we're in agreement. Get out. It makes it so simple. I didn't 53:25.660 --> 53:29.920 understand that self-deliverance aspect. It was more, you've got to do this. 53:30.140 --> 53:33.640 And so there was a lot of rough stuff that happened. 53:35.540 --> 53:38.000 Well, we had a lot of young Christians at that point 53:39.220 --> 53:43.560 who were coming to the church, a number of them. Even in this situation I'm going to 53:43.560 --> 53:46.920 tell you about right now, two of them ended up in full-time ministry. 53:47.860 --> 53:50.560 But we had, you know, they're all friends. They're young people. We had a lot of young 53:50.560 --> 53:55.780 people, uh, mid to late teens and early 20s. A lot of young people got saved. 53:56.180 --> 53:59.460 And a lot of demons started manifesting in these young people. 53:59.840 --> 54:04.520 So it's about, what was it, 11 at night, 1130 at night, the phone rings. 54:05.000 --> 54:08.240 Well, in those days when the phone rang it actually meant something. 54:10.420 --> 54:14.360 It doesn't anymore. Most of the time now it's a scammer. 54:15.560 --> 54:21.800 Um, so when the phone rings it's like, well, better answer it because at 1130 at night 54:23.200 --> 54:26.500 that meant something's going on. So phone rings, so here's one of these. 54:26.680 --> 54:30.040 There was three guys with a few girls and they were all hanging out 54:30.040 --> 54:36.420 and this one girl started manifesting. And they were all fairly newly saved, 54:36.600 --> 54:39.400 I don't know, six months a year, whatever, and they thought, let's deal with this. 54:40.500 --> 54:44.160 So the three guys who were, two of them ended up in ministry, 54:44.720 --> 54:48.020 thought, let's jump on this. This is a good time. We can, we can do this too, 54:48.040 --> 54:52.080 because they that believe will cast out demons and we're believers. So let's go after this. 54:52.660 --> 54:55.100 So they're, you know, they're, they're hanging out. 54:56.700 --> 55:02.740 They call me. They, they're, they're live, where I had a go was about 20 minutes away, 55:02.920 --> 55:06.700 as my memory says, 20, 25 minutes. They call me and one, you know, 55:06.700 --> 55:10.240 the guy who was talking to me sounded really nervous. 55:12.540 --> 55:16.680 Master Verne, this is, so, so, and gave us a name. I said, hey, what's going on? 55:17.300 --> 55:19.700 We have a little problem here. We need your help. 55:20.980 --> 55:23.460 And he mentions the name of the one girl. 55:25.380 --> 55:30.000 There was a demon that started manifesting and we tried to cast it out and it laughed at us, 55:30.640 --> 55:36.620 crawled out the upstairs window. It's sitting on the roof of the house in her body. 55:38.060 --> 55:45.100 And it's one of these kind of houses. It's not the nice flat roof. It's the A frame thing. 55:46.600 --> 55:48.800 I said, she's where? 55:51.360 --> 55:55.380 She's out on, you know, it was the top of the garage. You have the old house where you got 55:55.380 --> 55:58.780 the upstairs and you open the window and the garage roughs there and they went out the 55:58.780 --> 56:04.620 window, kicked the screen out and just went out and was sitting on the peak of the garage. 56:06.720 --> 56:09.960 And we need your help. I said, well, I'm coming. I said, but 56:10.640 --> 56:17.220 in the meantime, leave her alone. Don't do anything. Well, we thought we'd go out there. 56:17.340 --> 56:24.200 I said, do not go out there. If this thing is content to sit on the roof in her body, 56:24.600 --> 56:32.560 let it sit there until I show up. So they did. I drove over there as fast as I could 56:32.560 --> 56:39.160 without getting caught. And so I pulled into the driveway. Sure enough, still perched, 56:39.220 --> 56:45.200 you know, like a gargoyle on the peak of the garage rough. And I'm thinking, 56:46.360 --> 56:51.300 that may be that class of spirit. You know, you've got these things in old Europe where 56:51.300 --> 57:02.540 you've got gargoyles on the top of buildings and stuff. There is a class of spirit. They're 57:03.460 --> 57:06.260 I'll go up here so you can see it. So you got the peak of the roof 57:07.340 --> 57:11.740 literally perched like this, standing on the peak of the rough. 57:13.540 --> 57:19.780 Just perched. And I'm going, that's dangerous. One slip, man. Down she comes. 57:21.380 --> 57:29.640 So I went up inside and started talking out the window and commanding it, you know, 57:30.380 --> 57:33.200 go down. I want to talk to her. 57:36.120 --> 57:39.840 You know, it's feeling pretty good about itself at this point. 57:40.320 --> 57:44.680 So we had some exchange for a few minutes. Well, finally it obeyed and it went down. 57:45.440 --> 57:54.720 And she came back. She had been blacked out. She came back, perched on the roof of the garage. 57:57.260 --> 58:02.400 And she starts losing her balance. I said, sit down. So she did and kind of 58:02.400 --> 58:08.120 grabbed the roof and what am I doing out here? I said, we'll talk about it. 58:08.160 --> 58:13.340 But the first thing is to get you in here. Well, come out, help me. So I crawled out 58:13.340 --> 58:17.280 and straddled across the roof and grabbed her and helped drag her back in the house. 58:18.540 --> 58:24.760 That is really traumatic to someone. I said, well, what's the last thing you remember? 58:25.600 --> 58:29.800 Well, we were sitting around joking. We had snacks. We were sitting around the table. 58:29.940 --> 58:33.780 We were laughing. We were joking. And I said, the next thing you remember? 58:34.380 --> 58:40.360 I'm sitting on the top of a roof outside. I could have fallen down. That's not news thus. 58:40.360 --> 58:51.020 We knew that. Okay. How did I get into that? It was these steps on the top of page two. 58:52.920 --> 58:57.520 She needed, because she was blacked out, she needed some processing. 58:58.820 --> 59:02.600 Because she was afraid. Well, what if this happens in the middle of the night? Then I, 59:03.440 --> 59:07.040 nobody's around. And it takes me out and throws me in front of a semi. 59:07.040 --> 59:11.920 You know what I mean? And coming from her perspective, rightfully so. 59:12.940 --> 59:20.720 So you have to help the person. Not just spiritually. There's a mental soul side to this. 59:21.160 --> 59:26.400 And her adrenaline was through the roof. So you got to let them calm down. Take some deep 59:26.400 --> 59:33.180 breaths. Calm down. Just relax. Just blow it out. Okay. We're going to explain this to 59:33.180 --> 59:37.820 you. And we're a three-part being. We have to deal with ourselves as a three-part being. 59:38.080 --> 59:43.300 In the end, it all turned out good. And later in life, they all laughed about it, including the girl. 59:44.580 --> 59:49.220 Which to me made me feel good because that means we worked her through it okay. 59:50.020 --> 59:57.560 This wasn't a tormenting memory. And she finally did get delivered and got free. 59:57.560 --> 01:00:01.860 Did I share the story about during a Sunday night service, 01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:07.540 one of the teenagers came out of their body and was floating around the sanctuary desha? 01:00:07.620 --> 01:00:16.300 That was her. Anybody remember that? Remember that story? Okay. That was her. And that's 01:00:16.300 --> 01:00:22.540 where it started. It was a Sunday night service. And Sunday night services, we had as many or 01:00:22.540 --> 01:00:25.960 more people as we did Sunday morning because that was kind of a revival thing going on. 01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:33.480 And after the service, she said, I need to talk to you. I said, okay, we need to talk about. 01:00:34.220 --> 01:00:40.600 She said, I'm new to this Christianity spiritual stuff. Is it normal to come out of your body and 01:00:40.600 --> 01:00:47.980 float around the church? I said, who did that? She said, I did. And I could see every, you 01:00:47.980 --> 01:00:51.980 know, she said, I could go here, I could go there. And there was people in the back who 01:00:51.980 --> 01:00:55.080 weren't paying attention. And that one over there was doodling on a piece of paper. 01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:02.860 I said, yeah, that's probably not normal. We should talk. So that's where it started with her. 01:01:03.980 --> 01:01:09.420 This was her. When you're helping them through the things on top of page two, 01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.860 top of page three, don't overanalyze everything. Not with them. 01:01:15.220 --> 01:01:21.700 It can cause numerous bad side effects from fear to pride. I'm a special case. 01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:28.240 To worry and anxiety on their part, to where they can't sleep because who knows what's going to happen 01:01:28.240 --> 01:01:34.640 if I fall asleep. You can turn them into a seeker of negative attention. If they have been kind of 01:01:34.640 --> 01:01:38.800 abandoned by their parents and or their friends, they're kind of a loner. Nobody, you know, 01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:43.960 they don't really have many friends. Negative attention is better than no attention at all. 01:01:45.100 --> 01:01:49.140 And when demons are manifesting through me, everybody seems to care about me. 01:01:49.700 --> 01:01:54.720 When they're not, nobody cares. So in an immature mind, what does that do? 01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:03.020 You can turn them into that by overanalyzing and are you okay and calling them five times a day 01:02:03.020 --> 01:02:06.620 and this and that. And pretty soon they're going, I've never had someone give me this much 01:02:06.620 --> 01:02:13.000 attention in my lifetime. And then it starts, yeah, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. And then 01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:18.080 all of a sudden the attention starts going away and they like the attention. What are they 01:02:18.080 --> 01:02:23.900 going to do? They're going to find a way to get the attention back. So we have to be careful of that. 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:29.200 By overanalyze number two there, I'm talking about working through your questions, your personal. 01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:34.420 As the person doing it, your questions, your struggles, your possible negative perceptions, 01:02:34.660 --> 01:02:40.080 your concerns, the person you were doing deliverance with, you start talking these things 01:02:40.080 --> 01:02:45.400 through with them. Do not do that. That will not help them. You find someone, you can 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:49.000 talk that through. I'm not saying don't talk that through, but you don't talk that through 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:53.640 with the person you're doing deliverance with. Well, you know, when this happened, I just didn't 01:02:53.640 --> 01:02:58.060 know what to think. And I started wondering, you know, this could be something that we can't 01:02:58.060 --> 01:03:04.540 even take care of, but I know, but wait a second, no, God is capable. You are going to traumatize 01:03:04.540 --> 01:03:14.140 them. They need to hear faith, reassurance, encouragement, and truth only. They don't 01:03:14.140 --> 01:03:22.420 need to hear your doubts and your fears. And I was wondering this. And don't wonder it over with them. 01:03:24.620 --> 01:03:30.780 Make sure they understand self-deliverance. God removes demons in what I call layers, 01:03:31.780 --> 01:03:36.640 pending upon what the situation is and how God wants to do it. They may come out in layers, 01:03:36.900 --> 01:03:43.360 so they need to understand self-deliverance, which basically means this. Well, what if I'm 01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:50.880 at home and something starts manifesting? Do something about it. You. Oh, what would I do? 01:03:51.200 --> 01:03:55.460 Now you need to make sure they understand self-deliverance. Because in reality, 01:03:55.680 --> 01:03:57.980 I have more authority over my body than you do. 01:04:00.460 --> 01:04:07.220 You have less authority than me. They need to understand they are the king of their castle. 01:04:09.020 --> 01:04:14.920 They're the Lord of their temple with the Holy Spirit. And if something starts manifesting, and 01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:22.360 there's nobody around, you put on your boxing gloves and deal with it. And I'll tell you how to do it. 01:04:23.020 --> 01:04:29.260 And you can do it because they that believe will cast out demons. Are you a believer? Yes. 01:04:29.580 --> 01:04:34.960 Well, then you can do this. And you encourage them, give them some instruction. Because what's 01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:42.080 real is nobody can be there all the time. It doesn't happen. It just, that's a rarity. 01:04:42.620 --> 01:04:48.540 So they have to learn how to fight themself. They may not be totally free. Chances are good, 01:04:48.640 --> 01:04:53.700 they're not. So they have to learn how to fight themself. Number page four, letter D. 01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:57.680 As a side thought, sometimes people can have difficulty with self-deliverance. Why? 01:04:58.180 --> 01:05:02.760 There's four reasons there. Not only self-deliverance, but delivering of other, 01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:08.920 helping other people get free. It comes back to those four almost every time. 01:05:10.420 --> 01:05:15.280 Are they certain what the scripture says about it? Just like was said earlier, 01:05:15.600 --> 01:05:19.780 while I was questioning whether or even had the authority to do this. See, that got you. 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:26.580 We have to know. And the only way we learn that is by trial and error and experience. 01:05:27.340 --> 01:05:32.040 But we have to know what the scripture says about this and whether we have authority or not. 01:05:32.040 --> 01:05:40.100 Number two, do we know who we are in Christ? That's why I always make that announcement 01:05:40.100 --> 01:05:45.940 in the five things. Well, I can't use the word always because there's times I'm sure I don't. 01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:54.040 But I will try to say, I am here in the name of Jesus. I am in covenant with my father. 01:05:54.380 --> 01:05:59.300 And through the blood of Jesus, I have authority over you because of the blood 01:05:59.300 --> 01:06:03.360 and through the words of my mouth and my face, I'm going to cast you out. 01:06:04.380 --> 01:06:10.040 That is that right there. Who am I in Christ? Well, that's who I am. 01:06:10.620 --> 01:06:16.840 So we both might as well know right now. Number three, letter C, are they living 01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:23.160 James seven on a daily basis? If you're having problems getting a demon out, 01:06:23.700 --> 01:06:29.420 are you still in willful sin someplace? Because if you are, they don't have to leave. 01:06:30.080 --> 01:06:38.120 It says submit to God and resist that kingdom. Well, if you're clinging to that kingdom and not 01:06:38.120 --> 01:06:42.780 really submitting to God, but you want the demon out, it won't work. It won't work that way. 01:06:43.720 --> 01:06:49.580 That's a big one. Many times people who are not finding freedom aren't honest with themselves. 01:06:49.580 --> 01:06:53.840 They're still playing some games. And the last one is also relatively big. 01:06:55.180 --> 01:07:00.600 You may need to do some prayer and fasting to get it out. It's just something about prayer 01:07:00.600 --> 01:07:09.720 and fasting increases our power. It just does. And it's those four. If a demon is not coming 01:07:09.720 --> 01:07:15.460 out, you will find it in one of those four, whether it's self-deliverance or you're doing 01:07:15.460 --> 01:07:23.140 deliverance. Letter E, if it wasn't addressed in the deliverance session, remember there's always a 01:07:23.140 --> 01:07:29.200 reason the demons were there. It's good to find that reason if possible. Now, if it's generational, 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:34.000 you just cut it off and get rid of it and the Lord will teach them and sanctify them and work 01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:40.560 with them. If it's a personal sin, then you need to deal with it if at all possible, 01:07:41.040 --> 01:07:44.620 because there's a reason they got in. You can get them out, but if the reason 01:07:44.620 --> 01:07:49.380 isn't dealt with, forgiven, put under the blood, they'll just go right back in. 01:07:51.240 --> 01:07:58.380 And sometimes we figure that out. Sometimes they do. And top of page five, this is important. 01:07:59.100 --> 01:08:04.980 They don't need our speculation because it can stir them in the wrong direction. 01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:09.580 Well, you know, I was thinking, didn't your mom have a problem with this? 01:08:10.220 --> 01:08:16.840 Yeah, she did. Well, then it would make sense then that that's what's going on. They don't need that. 01:08:17.320 --> 01:08:23.340 They need to hear from God. You need to hear from God. There's nothing wrong with asking 01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:27.220 questions. Did your mom have a problem with this? Hmm, it's interesting. But don't start 01:08:27.220 --> 01:08:31.780 steering them that direction because that could be the furthest from the truth of what they need. 01:08:33.280 --> 01:08:38.320 And the number two, the second part is the days following the deliverance session. 01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:44.460 Check up on them. Make sure they're doing okay. Use wisdom. You want to encourage them. If it was a 01:08:44.460 --> 01:08:48.840 traumatic thing, they're going to need more help. If it wasn't so traumatic, they just need 01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:52.760 encouragement. You want to make sure you keep them on task or whatever you can. You know, 01:08:52.820 --> 01:08:56.620 as far as are they filling their temple? Are they in the word? Are they in praise 01:08:56.620 --> 01:09:00.740 and worship? Are they doing spiritual things that will help them? There is some 01:09:00.740 --> 01:09:03.440 aftercare and the whole thing is based on empathy. 01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:10.200 Which the old European culture by and large isn't the best at. 01:09:13.100 --> 01:09:15.820 And we can all get better at that one.