All right. Good evening to you and good evening to everybody who's joining us by live stream.
We have class tonight. Next week we do not. And then the following week is the last class.
So we're in trouble. Because we've got more material than we've got time to cover it.
So there will be more explanation in the last book once that's put together
then we'll probably get time to deal with in class because I just have numerous things to go over
yet. And some are more important. We're going to try to hit those first. If we have a little bit
time left over next class, we will deal with what we can there. This is night number 21.
So the last night will be night number 22. So just stop and think about it.
Most nights we didn't quit at 9. We quit at between 9, 9, 31 night. We almost went till 10.
So we had at least two hours, maybe two and a half times 22. We've been at this for 50 hours
and we still don't have everything covered. You know, we could keep going for a while.
But hopefully we've got the most important things covered. The one thing...
There was a few questions that came. So let me answer those first.
So I have a question for you. You're far enough into this class now. You should catch this.
Okay, so we had an incident last week and I'm going to keep it very neutral,
but we had an incident last week where someone manifested. And I believe it was of
God he wanted something dealt with. In that process, what was the thing I did not deal with
that had to be dealt with? Bingo. Did everybody notice that? I never dealt with the strongman
there last week. Which means rule of thumb, strongman never left. What left was a spirit
that the Holy Spirit drove up to make us aware of some things and make the person aware of some
things. But if you don't call the strongman out by name, strongman, and that's what I call
by name. You know, if the Lord gives you a certain strongman, well then that's fine.
But if you don't call him out by name, they won't leave. They just play the game with you.
So I was wanting to make sure you caught that. And so between then and now,
we went back into it because I talked to the person and the person said,
there's just something there yet and it's not happy. Well, yeah, you just took a stick
and beat on the hornet's nest and you killed a few of them. So what's left is not happy,
you know? That's the best way to give the example of it.
So we went back in and took care of the strongman situation in the kingdoms and that had to be
dealt with. So I wanted to point that out because if not on the spot, at some point,
if you're helping someone with deliverance stuff, you have to help them address the strongman.
If you leave that, that's like leaving the Queen of the Hive.
And you got to get the Queen out if you want the rest of the hive to be clean.
So I just wanted to bring that up, make sure that everybody caught that. And if you didn't,
from now on you will. A question came in from last week.
Last week you said the girl had a spirit of unforgiveness. How did you know?
How is that different than a person feeling someone has certain spirits that need to be
cast out? And you were in the process of saying you don't like it being done that way.
So that's a very good question. So let's answer the second question first.
Yes, I'm not crazy about the concept of nothing's manifesting. We can't see anything in your
eyes. There's nothing manifesting. But we start labeling all the things you have
and where they came from and if they're generational or whatever. And again, I'm not saying that's not
God. But like I said at the end of last week, especially if you're watching this online,
I'm not saying that's not God. He does deliverance in every possible way you can think of.
I had someone share with me and this one is like, I have not researched this. I trust them. I trust
their input. But I had someone share with me today. They said, are you aware of the minister
in Africa who does deliverance and gets people healed and things like that and how he does it?
I said, well, I've heard of people in Africa. I've seen some guys in Africa do things. What
are you talking about? Well, this particular guy kind of, the people either sit down or lay down
or whatever, any squats and farts in their face. Super weird. But the signs and wonders
following are unbelievable. It's just like, yeah, that would take some growth in my part
to do that to someone. Much less. I said, so what's the deal? And they said they're coming from
all over the world. And he prays over them, does that. Okay, well, maybe washing in a dirty river
or putting mud in the eyes isn't as far out as some things we could do. But anyway, I say
that to say this, God will do what he'll do many different ways of deliverance. So I'm not saying
that one way is wrong. I'm saying if you do that one way, make sure your skills are honed. You
hear the voice of God very clearly or damage follows it. You know, that's all, that's my
only point. So their question was, you don't like that, but yet how is what you did was different
because you said the person had a spirit of unforgiveness. Well, there's a couple three
differences. One is, there was a spirit manifesting. Two is, it didn't want to go.
You know, commanded it numerous times, it didn't want to go. So when you hit that block,
it's like, well, there's something deeper here that God wants us to see. So that's when I started
saying, I called the person back. I don't want to talk to you anymore. I want the person back.
I want to talk to the person. While I was saying that with my mouth, inside I was saying, Holy
Spirit, what is this? And as the person came back, the Holy Spirit told me unforgiveness.
So in the aspect of getting information from the Holy Spirit, it's the same thing.
In the application of it, it's totally different. In that, we were having a manifestation.
We were having one who was bound determined to stay because from its perspective, there was
sin ground there. It still had the right to stay. But there will be times the Lord will give you
names. He'll give you categories. That's a category. Unforgiveness is a category. He'll give you
names. He'll give you categories so forth. You've got to use that. That's information.
But for me to, you know, pick somebody who's just sitting here and looking at me saying,
you know, I don't know if I have demons or not. Well, let's pray for you. And then I
list off 15 things and you're not having any manifestations. You're kind of normal.
And we're going to submit to, well, yeah, evidently all these bad things are in my life or happen to
me or whatever. Nah, nah. No. If you got a demon, we're going to know you got a demon.
And there's lots of people with demons that don't know they got them.
And the first way you see it's in the eyes. But anyway, so then how did you know it was
Spirit of Unforgiveness? Because that's what Holy Spirit told me. The manifestation aspect is huge.
That's the big differentiator for me. Now, I wasn't in here. I was greeting people on
Sunday morning when that one came to the surface. So I don't know what the immediate
manifestation was. There was three people involved. You and do you remember what that
immediate manifestation was? She was grunting and it did not sound human. Okay. There was a
non-human grunting voice coming out. Okay. Well, I'd call that a manifestation.
Because the average woman doesn't do that. Now, there's some that might, but most of them
don't, you know. So there was a prayer line. The person was in the prayer line and all of a
sudden there's a manifestation. Okay. The manifestation aspect of going after something
to me is huge. And in our... where did we talk about it? Let me find it here. It was the
outline for casting out demons, number 15. That night we listed out, and it'll be in
the book, we listed out the main manifestations I look for. Eyes are number one, grunting and
sounds and voices, number two, contorting in the face. You know, it's things that are not
normal. Sometimes things that are not physically possible. So we're not going to go back and
review that. But if you're going to cast something out, a manifestation of some kind
to know we have a problem, rather than presuming we have a problem because the person is having
problem getting over lying. Well, they got a lying demon. They may not have anything of a demon.
They may have to grow and mature. Not everything's a demon. You know, there's a lot of things
in my life I'd like to get rid of by somebody praying over me. It takes all the work out of
it. You know, it's just instant over. But you miss the growth, and it's a lot of work. And in that
work you grow. It's called suffering. That's what 1 Peter 4, 1 and 2 is talking about. When we
suffer in the flesh about sin, that's when we will get done with sin. So not every sin
is a demon. Now, demons will work with sin, but you can get rid of the demon and the person
still has a lying problem. They have to overcome. They have to grow. So manifestations, that's
the direction I come from because it's over the years everybody has a demon. And especially
the ones who are trying to make excuses for bad behavior. Well, Pastor, if you could
cast the demon out of me, then I wouldn't be going to the neighbor's house and sleeping
with him anymore. Well, I'm sure you got demons, but I'm not sure that's the cause of the problem.
That's the result of the problem. There's a difference. And you say, why did you bring that
up? Because I've literally had that said to me. You want to hear another one? Pastor,
you need to... I have a spirit of either suicide or death or something because I have these
strong urges. I need to get this out because I have these strong urges to kill my wife.
And I need this demon cast out before it actually happens. I end up killing her.
It's like, I think we got a deeper problem here. You know, I'm not saying when you get
impulses like that, there's probably not spirits in the background going,
hey, here's an opportunity. Let's help this guy out.
But Christians, especially, you know, charismatic full-gauss people, like to find something to
blame. So we're not at fault. Truth of the matter is we have to grow. And that is actually
self-deliverance. Submit yourself to God in the areas you're being stubborn. And resist
the stuff you're not supposed to be doing and the demons will flee. We have to grow.
So anyway, second question, when you're casting something out,
how do you do that? Okay, we've gone over it. I'm going to go over it real briefly.
Number one, number one, someone has to take charge. This cannot be a group event.
You can have, and so let's go back Sunday morning. Sunday morning, Mary had to leave
and go speak at a different church. I'm out there greeting people. She comes by and she says,
I have to leave, but there's a manifestation in there. I assign people to pray with the person,
just be aware of it when you go in. So I thought, well, she's assigned people and I'm
sure she's assigned good people. So I'll just keep greeting till it's time to go in.
So then when I came in, I kind of stood over there and watched, and there was a group event
going on. And I don't think it was a group event because you folks chose it to be a
group event. It became a group event when people got involved who were not invited to be involved.
Then it became a group event. So everybody standing around praying and telling it to leave
rarely works. I'm just, my experience rarely works. You just torment the person
and the spirit. It just rarely works. So when I saw that, so then I walked over and kind of
spread the wave a little bit. I might have jumped the front of some of you if I did. I'm sorry.
But I thought, well, we're gonna have to end this. And the person is, I don't know if they were in
physical pain, but they were standing there shaking with this tormented look on their face.
And it's like, yeah, see, that's exactly what I, if we can avoid that, sometimes you can't.
But if we can avoid that, that's what I want to avoid. Because if you keep it a group event,
that would have went on for as long as everybody kept praying.
To be fair, the shaking and torment did start until you came into the room.
Oh, really? Okay.
So it's, okay. So the shaking and torment happened shortly before I came or when I
showed up or whatever. So, okay. Well, that helps. That relieves me a little bit because
it's like, this poor person is in torment here. We've got a... So, number one, someone has
to take charge. When you take charge, others can support you.
They support you by being in agreement with you. Get their hands off the person.
There is no place in Scripture you find Jesus laid hands on someone to cast out a demon.
It gets in the way, typically speaking, from my experience.
So, number one, get the hands off. If you're going to be in charge, take charge.
Get the hands off if there's people there with hands on.
And step the people out who want to be in charge but never took charge.
Just kind of say, okay, support me in this, but let me do this.
Someone has to take charge. That means not only dealing with the person, that means dealing
with the people. So, everybody knows their spot. And then you have to speak to the person
and or the demon. You talk to them like a living person or entity. You don't just stand there
and pray over them. You talk to them. Because first of all, you've got to figure out what
you're talking to. Is the demon up? Or is the person there? Talk to them. It becomes spooky.
How are we just going to take the word and we're going to engage this name again?
And we never really talk to them. Are you okay? What's happening? What are you feeling?
Well, if all you get back at that point is grunting and growling,
you know the person either needs psychological help or they're not there.
You're talking to a spirit. Well, now you've got some questions answered. So then the next step in
my mind is get rid of the spirit and talk to the person. Many times they know what the demon is
because they feel it. And whatever the category is, this thing just feels like death. Well,
it feels like hate. Could be a spirit of hate then. It doesn't take rocket science to figure this out.
But they have more information than you do unless the Holy Spirit gives it to you.
So you want to talk to them and then you just want to lead them through James 4 or 7.
And put the whole thing together in a bundle. And if they feel like it's hate, we'll add
that in. We're talking about spirit of hate or suicide or whatever. Just add that in. But
don't focus just on that. Put it all in a bundle and then cast it out.
Commend it to go. Once you've led them through James 4 or 7, that's what makes it easy.
For instance, last week, that could have went on and went on and went on and went on.
And when I first started, that's what I didn't know. And it went on and it went on.
And you're trying to overpower them. And man, maybe I don't have the faith.
Maybe I didn't pray and fast enough. Maybe I didn't. And you're trying to overpower the spirit.
That's the hard way. Command the spirit to back down. I want to talk to the person who is the
rightful owner of that temple. You're not your trespasser, so you come second.
I want the rightful owner to talk to the person. Lead them through James 4 or 7.
And it just strips all the power away. You're dealing with personal sin. You're
dealing with generational stuff. You're cutting that off. And then, as you noticed last week,
once that happened, there was no issue at all to get rid of it. Go. And it left.
So that's very important. That's in a nutshell how you do it. We did it. We went through
that a couple of times previous. Again, that same night, number 15, which was actually March 14th.
We went in it. We went through that step by step, piece by piece.
So I will say this in the future, because we've done this class. We've gone through this
class. And not everybody was able to be here personally. Some of you joined us online
and have gone through everything. But in the future, one of the qualifications for
casting out demons at Word of Life, and I think Mary's going to do the same thing at TBO,
is you have to have at least gone through this class. So there's some format where we're
on an agreement and we're all approaching it from the same direction. Otherwise, it's like,
it won't happen here. It would do whatever you want on your time, but here it just won't happen here.
So with that part of introduction said, do we have any questions that need answering right now?
We do. And I forgot to grab the mic. It's still over there. So if you could do that.
Sam, did you enjoy running the mic last week? Okay. So how about you meet back there
and we'll hand it over to you. Whichever one it's not turned on, I don't think.
She enjoyed it. Yeah. So we'll let her be the mic runner. And it was the young lady back in the
corner that Dave Rogers brought with tonight. Very young. Yes. He's getting old as dirt,
but she's really... The question that we had is, last week we noticed you took her hand and Dave said,
we were talking about it and he said, I think that you did that so she didn't bolt. Yep. And
then tonight you said, don't touch them. So that was under the direction of the Holy Spirit.
Okay. Keep your hands off unless he says, do something. Like for instance,
one that had happened years ago when the person was being drug out of the building
by... I shared this way back towards the beginning. Person was being drug out of the
building by spirit and they were literally leaning forward fighting and sliding backwards
and there was nobody behind them. There I touched the person and I grabbed on and prayed and rebuked
and everything at the same time. So again, you have to be led by the spirit. That's the key
to the whole thing. The immediate impulse of charismatic or faith people is lay hands on
and that can cause more problems. You say, how can that cause more problems? Okay. So let me just give
you first thing that usually happens. We have someone struggling with the spiritual thing.
Something's manifesting and you've got five people coming up and laying hands on.
I don't know what those five people have been into, but that spirit will know immediately
if one of them is in disobedience or rebellion someplace. And now you're actually
dealing with this person's demons and that person's demons because those demons link up.
They're of the same kingdom and they're going to do everything they can together to try to keep
this person from getting free. That's usually the biggest thing. Just keep your hands off
unless the Holy Spirit tells the person who's leading this.
You know, somebody's got to be in charge, but that is why, yes, he was right in that.
The person was getting ready to get out of here. And I took the hand, they were sitting
and I got in front of them and I got real close. If you watch the video again,
I got real close and held the hand. It's difficult to stand up when someone's
right there and they're sitting. So you've got the hand. So even if they turn,
try to get out the side. If you give a little jerk, they lose their balance. They're back down.
You know, so it's just a preventative measure of, oh, this person's going to want a bolt. Well,
let's help make sure that doesn't happen. The Holy Spirit said, just grab her.
So that's what that was about. Were you going to say something?
Um, so back to when one person's praying over them and another person touches them.
Would that be why there was such a disruption?
Give me more clarity. In my situation where there was such a disruption where I was like,
whoa, something happened. And then I opened my eyes and I was like, oh,
Oh, you're talking back weeks. You're not talking last week.
Sunday. Sunday.
I'm trying to be vague. I'm sorry. Okay.
I'm trying to be vague and ask you a question about Sunday when I spoke with you.
Yes. Without being. Yes.
And it was similar to what happened weeks ago.
Okay. Correct. Am I right with that?
Well, what you talked to me about weeks ago when
I'll try to be vague with you and we'll figure this out.
I'm trying to be so vague.
When you were at the front. No, it wasn't you. My mistake. It was someone else.
Who is, is I stay vague.
So let me give you their experience. Okay.
And then I believe I'm on the same page with you. That's why I thought it was you.
Wonderful.
They said that there was a prayer line we had this number weeks back. There was a prayer
line we had. And when they were coming to the front, the power of God was on them so
strong. They didn't know if they'd make it. They thought they'd go down in the aisle on the way.
They got here. So rather than trying to fight it, they just got down in their knees and started
praying until we go down the prayer line. And again, uninvited, someone came and laid hands on
them. And when that person laid hands on them, they said the power of God instantly
vanished. It was just like it got sucked away. It was gone.
Similar, right? Is that where we're talking? Yeah. So that would be why all of a sudden it was just
like, whoa, something changed. And then you just like adjust. Yep. Yep.
Laying on of hands is a holy thing. We kind of take it as a, let's just lay on hands and
let them know where we support them. No. Laying on of hands in a prayer situation is
actually a holy thing. And what we're in the, in from scripture side, what we're doing is the
hands carry the anointing and we're laying on of hands. So the anointing transfers. Well, the
problem is if there's something broken or really off in the person when they lay on of hands,
you not only are susceptible to God's anointing transferring, you're susceptible to whatever
they've got. So it's, it's not a nice thing to do. It is something that is holy. And we have to
respect it as such. So I'm going to try to say this properly here. Because we're, because
laying on the, laying hands on, right, which is a holy thing. Example me, right? Not perfect.
Probably got some junk in me, right? But still, like, is it because God's holy spirit was like,
I'm going to anoint you to do this thing. I'm going to tell you this thing and
you're going to direct it, then things don't transfer. But then when, does that make sense?
Yes. I'll add to it. Yes. Everything we do is supposed to be under the direction of
holy spirit. Yeah. You know, it's, it's one of the things we're going to teach in the prayer team,
which might also say now, when you get an, when you get something from God,
there's three questions you need to ask yourself. Number one, what am I supposed to do with this?
Because many times he'll tell us something and we assume we know what he wants us to do.
We can miss him by a thousand miles. What am I supposed to do with this? Anything?
If it's about a person, am I supposed to get involved? Number two.
In other words, I've got information. Do I need to talk to him? Do I need to ask if they need
prayer? Am I supposed to get involved? And then number three, am I supposed to get involved
now? Because there's times the Lord will tell us something that we sit on for six months
while we're praying for them and they're kind of cooking, getting ready to receive it. Where if
you jump in early, you botched it all up. And, and the thing is we, we, we get a piece of information
from God, but we never get the rest of the story. I shouldn't say never. Too often we don't
get the rest of the story. We just assume, oh, this is what that means. I should do this.
And that is especially true in prayer lines. Well, why would he tell me something if I'm
praying for someone and all of a sudden he downloads his information to me? Why would
he do that if he doesn't want me to deal with it now? Because at some point he might want
to dealt with. And he may want to use you. He may be encouraging you to pray for them.
He, there could be numerous reasons. It doesn't mean you deal with it right now.
So did we answer your question kind of being vague? I'd say so. Okay. If we weren't so vague,
it would help. But that's okay. Any other questions before we move on?
Well, maybe. Maybe, maybe a question up front. Let's try it. See if there is.
Can you bring the mic, please? I was thinking when you were ministering on Sunday,
did you deal with a strong man right away? Yes. On Sunday I did. That's what I thought
I was hearing. And I was just, I just wanted to make sure that that was it. So then...
Because what was manifesting was not manifesting in such a way that it needed immediate
attention. You could tell it was there. But it's like, well, let's just not mess
around. Let's just go after a strong man. Well, I was trying to listen to everything
you were saying without, you know, and I thought, I thought that I just wanted to make sure that that...
So, and, and my hats off to those of you that immediately got involved. Excellent. That's
what we need. Just a if, if not if, it probably will happen when it happens again.
And a few of you are assigned or whatever. First thing you need to determine is who's
going to lead this. Just talk amongst yourself. Are you going to do it? Am I going to do it? Who's
going to do this? Okay. So, by the time I came in and clarified this for me, Crystal, if I'm off,
by the time I came in, you had kind of backed up. You were, well, moved to the side and kind of
backed up. You had your hand out towards her. So, yeah, I was watching because from my
perception, the group had gathered, which you probably felt, well, now we got a problem.
You probably couldn't, didn't know what do I do with this because we're always afraid of fending
people. Well, Mary was, afterwards I told Mary about it. She was very frustrated. She said,
I called three people. Why did the rest show up? Because that's what Christians do. We don't
listen because we're, can I be really blunt? We're that arrogant. Well, I know Mary didn't call me,
but I can help in this situation. If she didn't call you, wait your turn.
Okay. We had people who didn't attend the class. So, she did put her in charge.
Okay. So, and we can discuss this a little bit. We'll need the mic runner to be running.
So, number one, who's going to lead this? Who's going to take the lead? That doesn't mean
everybody else is useless. I mean, they can make suggestions. Do we deal with the strong
man? Let's get this thing down. Because sometimes the first few times you do it,
you're going, okay, I know there's something I'm supposed to be doing now, but I don't
remember what it is, you know. But if you took the lead, we'll take the lead
and stay there if at all possible. Because again, it's not a show of strength thing. It's a faith
thing. If you're standing there and it's like, okay, I'm going to do this, and then you
start floundering, go ahead, you take over. That being knows you are not, you're in doubt now.
I'm not sure I can do this. You do it. And they're already looking for the ranks to break.
So, you know, if you can stay intact, stay intact, that's how we all learn.
If you absolutely know the Holy Spirit's telling me to back off, then say that.
I just feel like the Holy Spirit's telling me to back up. Who wants to take charge?
So settle that. So someone's in charge.
So Mary had gestured for me to come up. I was just standing in the back, you know.
Mine in your own business. Mine in my own business.
So she had gestured for me to come up. So I came up in front of the lady or in front of the
person and she was grunting. And then Mary came back for just a second and said,
liver. That confused me because then I'm thinking healing but grunting. So I'm thinking about
what I'm supposed to be doing. So I start praying for a liver and then she began to
manifest a little more burp, really a lot of burping and grunting. And I told it to be
quiet, but I didn't think to command it to go down because I just, the music's loud. I don't know,
it's different. It's different when I'm watching you do it. I know, it's different. And that's how we
learn, you know. The music's loud. I can't hear the Holy Spirit at all. I know. And I'm feeling
kind of abandoned by Mary because at first I thought it was just like a placeholder
and Mary was going to come back. She did not come back. So I'm realizing, oh, this is me.
So I'm thinking about the steps and obviously it's manifesting. I'm moving close. I am not fearful at
all. You know, I'm thinking, okay, I'm kind of going through my steps, but then I just lost the
steps. I just, um, and other people are gathered around and that, you know, I don't know, I'm
kind of slow thinking. Anyway, I move slowly through my brain. Slow witted is what I call
myself. So you're the lead. If you lose your step, you could easily turn to someone and say
where are we supposed to, where do we start with this? Because the thing that probably threw
you a little bit was the liver. Yes. And it's like, so I'm thinking healing and so, but, but she had
taken my hand. So I put my hand on her shoulder, but Mary had said, I think she actually said lay
hands on. So it was a little bit of a confused situation. Confused situation. But I was
definitely the lead and I definitely didn't do my job. And I went home and studied up
and I'm going to memorize this job. I wish I had a do do over on that one. Oh, you'll get a do over.
Maybe not on that one, but you'll get a do over. As I was going to say, as you've probably noticed,
and I, it could be the result of, okay, now we've been studying all winter and the Lord's
saying, okay, now let's help some people. That's why things are manifesting more.
Then again, it could also be this last day's push because this is happening around the
country. This isn't just happening here. This is happening all over. We have a movie out about it.
So this is not unique to us. This could be the Holy Spirit just stepping in and doing
some things to help clean some people up, which to me, it's awesome because we got a
head start and we learned some things. So let's jump in on the flow and do it.
But your point is exactly right. When you're doing it for real, it's different.
And it takes some practice. And so you're standing there going, and to me, it's funny
because I've been down this road. It's like, oh yeah, I remember that. And here's what's worse.
You're not the pastor. So when the pastor's standing there, you can't remember what to do
or figure it out or, oh man, this is going to go bad. You know, then doubt starts coming
and unbelief. And it's already grunting. Pretty soon it's going to start
doing who knows what. And I can't control this. And I'm the pastor and everybody's
thinking, our fearless leader is going to do, I'm going to make a fool out of myself.
This thoughts start bombarding you. And I'm sure you had a few of them bombard you too.
I was doubting what my authority was. I'm just like, do I have authority
to do anything here? I'm glad you're honest. I did lean in and ask her some questions.
She was able to tell me some things. And I said, I need you to work with me.
I said, can you hear me? And she said, yes. And it was very normal. Yes.
Yep. So I said, I need you to work with me. And I tried to go through James 4-7.
I don't know if I did it right. And I tried to go through the steps, the five steps, but
it is different when you're the one. It is. Yeah, it is. And I'm so glad you're
honest enough to share exactly how it was from your perspective.
Because almost all of us, there might be a rare exception, but all of us go through
that same thing. Especially if it's to the point where it starts
cussing at you, yelling at you, telling you you don't have authority,
and you have no right in hearing and back away. This is, I own this person. And, you know,
it just throws you in the ditch. It's like, what do I do with this? You know,
kind of thing. That comes by experience. So thank you for sharing that perspective.
When you have something you call like people get called up, how many is a good number for the group?
I mean, you can have 20 standing there as long as they're just supporting. You just have to
have somebody take the lead. Okay. Because you can have 20 people standing there with their
hands out praying over the person and get nothing done. Or you can have one person there taking
the lead working this through and get the person free. Because like when she called people
to come, I was like, you look over there, it's like, okay, a bunch of people are moving or and
whether they're all class or not, I guess I didn't pay attention. But, but it's just like, okay,
we'll have to label it the demon team. We need the demon team.
Anybody who's dozing off at that point, that'll bring them back out of it.
All right, let's move on. Did you do anything? Okay, we're good. Let's move on and cover a few
more things. There's a handout up here. Ken, could you help me? There's a handout says
deliverance after care. I know we've got to go back and finish that other one. But
because of what's happened, I think this one's really important to go over.
When someone gets deliverance, what takes place after it's over can be really vital.
And I learned this the hard way, the wrong way. Some people got hurt by the time I figured out
because see, I was just so excited when they actually started listening to me.
And they'd leave that I was all excited and rejoicing and never put myself in that person's
mindset, in their emotional set. What they just came through, what are they feeling?
In other words, I was lacking empathy. So I was all excited for me. Woo-hoo! Finally,
it works. And they're confused. They're a little bit bewildered. And I learned it the wrong way.
For instance, one that came back to me years later, there was a lady that early on I had been
doing deliverance with. And I remember the night it happened vaguely. But I don't remember
the storyline, what was happening. But I remember the spirit threatened me
before I commanded it to go down. It threatened me. And it made some absurd
while I was saying, you got to go down. I won't talk to her.
It made some absurd threat that just struck me funny.
So then it goes down and the lady's back. And I'm sitting there, I'm laughing. I said,
this is hilarious. It's like, you actually said that. It's hilarious.
Well, I didn't know she was blacked out. She had no idea what had just happened.
It's like she just woke up from sleeping and, okay, I'm awake. What happened?
And I'm sitting there roaring, you know, thinking this is hilarious.
That offended her and probably rightfully so. I don't remember if I explained to her
why I was laughing. I don't remember if she asked. But it was a lack of empathy on my part
because I wasn't taking into consideration what is this person going through right now?
Where are they at? So out of that comes this and we're going to go fairly quickly. I'm going to
break down the aftercare part in two ways. The moments immediately after the deliverance has
taken place in number two, the days following. And this is more of a deliverance session
that you did with someone. The first one. How can we help the person the most in the
moments following this deliverance session? Okay, the first thing you have to separate
right here now, was this a calm deliverance session or was this more out there? Like for instance,
last week Tuesday I would consider a little more out there. It wasn't really bad,
but it was a little more out there compared to Sunday morning was fairly calm.
There was no huge manifestation. A little, but it wasn't huge. If it's fairly calm
right after it happens, the person is not near as traumatized.
If it's in a public setting, you still have to, you know, because people get embarrassed and,
you know, I can't say I blame them. They're coming to a prayer line to get hands laid on for
something. And the next thing they know is they're grunting and growling and hissing and
all the focus went and it's like, oh man, how'd I get into this? You know, so it can be embarrassing.
So even in a case like Sunday morning, after it's over, are you okay? We will talk later,
you know, because you're not going to stop and take 15 minutes to talk it through with them
right there. We'll talk later. I'll check in on you later. If it's a fairly mild thing,
it doesn't traumatize the person as much. It's much more easy. So you still need to do some
aftercare. Put yourself in their place. You know, even a mild thing where there's some kind of
random manifestation and it's in a public setting. Even in a mild situation like that,
it's embarrassing. I mean, we didn't necessarily sign up for this. I don't know of anybody
who signed up and said, I can't wait till I go to church and have a public demon, a public
manifestation of a demon, you know. We didn't sign up for this. This is not what we got into it for,
but Jesus is more concerned of getting us free. Now we as the body then come along and either
make this a good experience or a bad experience for the person. Our focus here is to make it a
good experience. So if it's a mild thing, then you deal with it according to that depth.
If it's a major disruption, like it talks about there under number two. If it was a traumatic
deliverance, more care needs to be taken. Empathy has to reign supreme here. Put yourself in the
place of that person the best you can. How did the demon manifest? Did it speak or scream
through them? Did it gain bodily control in any way? Did it convulse their body? Did it take
over the function of the body so the person was not able to control themselves? And the more of
these things that I have listed there, that happened, the more traumatic it is. For instance,
just that third one. If that's the only one that happened, did it take over the function of the
body so the person was not in control of their body anymore? They couldn't control their speech,
they couldn't control their arms flailing, they couldn't control what was coming out of them,
screaming, yelling, cursing, whatever. They're there trying to control themselves, but they can't.
The control is taken away. Now, I've never been in that situation, but that has to be dramatizing.
To be in your body and be totally out of control of it. Especially in a public setting,
where if it's private it's not as bad, but in a public setting and you're hearing yourself
say things, do things, that it's like, oh man, why can't I shut this down and you've got no control.
That has to be traumatizing. I mean put yourself in the person's... I don't want that to ever happen.
I'm sure none of us want that to ever happen. So you have to watch that. Did the demon take
the person out of the room? See, that's what I tried to prevent and with the Lord's help
that happened last Tuesday. And if they did get taken out of the room, did anybody stay with them?
Because that sometimes happens where they get up and run out and nobody goes with them.
So now you've got a... I think of one particular case. I wasn't in charge, but
the person got up and ran out and then the person in charge said, let's just all turn
and pray for them. And I'm going, that's good, but you need to send somebody who knows what
they're doing after them because you just let a person leave the building with a demon up
manifesting. At least get somebody to monitor it and watch it and follow the person and
you know, help out. Did they regain control of their senses, their body finding themselves
in a different location? That happens a lot. The blackout thing. I thought we were in
the church. Why am I sitting in my car right now?
And they go, how did I get here? What happened? See, that's traumatizing. That demands
some aftercare to help the person from being really hurt or wounded. So what are the first
things that are needed? Well, to the depth of what they went through, we have to reassure them.
And the first thing they're going to say, is this ever going to happen again? Do not lie to
them. It may. But we will win. And I will stick with you and I will help you. And there's people
who will walk this out with you. Because if they just came through something traumatic,
they're legitimately concerned it's going to happen again. And rightfully so. Talk them
through what they may be feeling physically. There's adrenaline rush. That has its own symptoms.
Besides if the thing's not left or you only got rid of a piece of it and the strong man's still
there, they can feel all kinds of internal turmoil and swirling, so to speak. They're not a
piece. They're not at rest. If they're seeing things. And I know we talked about this earlier,
but many times when a person comes out of a deliverance session, they are seeing in the
spirit realm because they're not free yet. Remember, there's only two ways for a human
being to see in the spirit realm. It's either by the gift of the spirit, discerning of spirits,
or it's by a demon spirit. And if they're still seeing in the spirit realm, and this was a
deliverance setting, well now you know for a fact, they're not free yet. They're not clean.
But it can be traumatizing to them. And you have to work with them. There's a physical aspect.
There's a spiritual aspect. Have them take some deep breaths and let their body calm down.
There's a physical aspect to this also. And encouraging them, reassuring them
by dealing with the questions they have. You may not be able to do it right on the
spot, but I will spend time with you. And we will talk about this till every question you have is
answered. It helps. The last thing a person who's had a traumatic deliverance experience needs
is abandonment. That is just to feel alone. Now they from the inside begin working on your
mental like you're crazy. It probably never even happened. And these people all think
you're nuts. And that's why nobody wants to have anything to do with you because you might go
into one of these episodes again. And they just get tormented. They can't be left alone at that
point. They need some reassurance. Address the feelings they have. You know, I'm a freak.
They feel stupid, awkward fear, those kind of things. Once you get them calmed down
because it's on two sides. Yes, 1A2B above. It's that whole list says how did the demon manifest?
Did a speaker scream through them? Did it gain bodily control? Go down through. You don't have
to take the book out and read it. It's just what happened to them? Were you there and sought?
Were they aware of it?
But you have to talk them through this because they're going to have a thousand questions.
They may come back and say, I don't remember anything that happened.
And if something bad happened, don't hide it from them. Because some wise persons are
going to come along and say, that was really weird when you and they're going to spit it out.
And the person is going to be traumatized again. They're going to say, I did what?
Because they were blacked out. They don't remember.
I have it written down to share some place tonight. Here's a good place to throw it in.
So when this started happening in that first situation where I had become the pastor
and I was thrown into that 18 to 24 months of just stuff,
well, there was all kinds of people manifesting and all kinds of things were happening.
I did not know self-deliverance very well. The only thing I knew is you got to get somebody
there and cast it out for them. I didn't understand James 4.7. James 4.7 is a self-deliverance
scripture. That's why it works so good when you're trying to deliver someone because
actually they're doing self-deliverance. You're just adding your faith to theirs.
You're leading them through James 4.7. They're submitting and renouncing.
And okay, now we're in agreement. Get out. It makes it so simple. I didn't
understand that self-deliverance aspect. It was more, you've got to do this.
And so there was a lot of rough stuff that happened.
Well, we had a lot of young Christians at that point
who were coming to the church, a number of them. Even in this situation I'm going to
tell you about right now, two of them ended up in full-time ministry.
But we had, you know, they're all friends. They're young people. We had a lot of young
people, uh, mid to late teens and early 20s. A lot of young people got saved.
And a lot of demons started manifesting in these young people.
So it's about, what was it, 11 at night, 1130 at night, the phone rings.
Well, in those days when the phone rang it actually meant something.
It doesn't anymore. Most of the time now it's a scammer.
Um, so when the phone rings it's like, well, better answer it because at 1130 at night
that meant something's going on. So phone rings, so here's one of these.
There was three guys with a few girls and they were all hanging out
and this one girl started manifesting. And they were all fairly newly saved,
I don't know, six months a year, whatever, and they thought, let's deal with this.
So the three guys who were, two of them ended up in ministry,
thought, let's jump on this. This is a good time. We can, we can do this too,
because they that believe will cast out demons and we're believers. So let's go after this.
So they're, you know, they're, they're hanging out.
They call me. They, they're, they're live, where I had a go was about 20 minutes away,
as my memory says, 20, 25 minutes. They call me and one, you know,
the guy who was talking to me sounded really nervous.
Master Verne, this is, so, so, and gave us a name. I said, hey, what's going on?
We have a little problem here. We need your help.
And he mentions the name of the one girl.
There was a demon that started manifesting and we tried to cast it out and it laughed at us,
crawled out the upstairs window. It's sitting on the roof of the house in her body.
And it's one of these kind of houses. It's not the nice flat roof. It's the A frame thing.
I said, she's where?
She's out on, you know, it was the top of the garage. You have the old house where you got
the upstairs and you open the window and the garage roughs there and they went out the
window, kicked the screen out and just went out and was sitting on the peak of the garage.
And we need your help. I said, well, I'm coming. I said, but
in the meantime, leave her alone. Don't do anything. Well, we thought we'd go out there.
I said, do not go out there. If this thing is content to sit on the roof in her body,
let it sit there until I show up. So they did. I drove over there as fast as I could
without getting caught. And so I pulled into the driveway. Sure enough, still perched,
you know, like a gargoyle on the peak of the garage rough. And I'm thinking,
that may be that class of spirit. You know, you've got these things in old Europe where
you've got gargoyles on the top of buildings and stuff. There is a class of spirit. They're
I'll go up here so you can see it. So you got the peak of the roof
literally perched like this, standing on the peak of the rough.
Just perched. And I'm going, that's dangerous. One slip, man. Down she comes.
So I went up inside and started talking out the window and commanding it, you know,
go down. I want to talk to her.
You know, it's feeling pretty good about itself at this point.
So we had some exchange for a few minutes. Well, finally it obeyed and it went down.
And she came back. She had been blacked out. She came back, perched on the roof of the garage.
And she starts losing her balance. I said, sit down. So she did and kind of
grabbed the roof and what am I doing out here? I said, we'll talk about it.
But the first thing is to get you in here. Well, come out, help me. So I crawled out
and straddled across the roof and grabbed her and helped drag her back in the house.
That is really traumatic to someone. I said, well, what's the last thing you remember?
Well, we were sitting around joking. We had snacks. We were sitting around the table.
We were laughing. We were joking. And I said, the next thing you remember?
I'm sitting on the top of a roof outside. I could have fallen down. That's not news thus.
We knew that. Okay. How did I get into that? It was these steps on the top of page two.
She needed, because she was blacked out, she needed some processing.
Because she was afraid. Well, what if this happens in the middle of the night? Then I,
nobody's around. And it takes me out and throws me in front of a semi.
You know what I mean? And coming from her perspective, rightfully so.
So you have to help the person. Not just spiritually. There's a mental soul side to this.
And her adrenaline was through the roof. So you got to let them calm down. Take some deep
breaths. Calm down. Just relax. Just blow it out. Okay. We're going to explain this to
you. And we're a three-part being. We have to deal with ourselves as a three-part being.
In the end, it all turned out good. And later in life, they all laughed about it, including the girl.
Which to me made me feel good because that means we worked her through it okay.
This wasn't a tormenting memory. And she finally did get delivered and got free.
Did I share the story about during a Sunday night service,
one of the teenagers came out of their body and was floating around the sanctuary desha?
That was her. Anybody remember that? Remember that story? Okay. That was her. And that's
where it started. It was a Sunday night service. And Sunday night services, we had as many or
more people as we did Sunday morning because that was kind of a revival thing going on.
And after the service, she said, I need to talk to you. I said, okay, we need to talk about.
She said, I'm new to this Christianity spiritual stuff. Is it normal to come out of your body and
float around the church? I said, who did that? She said, I did. And I could see every, you
know, she said, I could go here, I could go there. And there was people in the back who
weren't paying attention. And that one over there was doodling on a piece of paper.
I said, yeah, that's probably not normal. We should talk. So that's where it started with her.
This was her. When you're helping them through the things on top of page two,
top of page three, don't overanalyze everything. Not with them.
It can cause numerous bad side effects from fear to pride. I'm a special case.
To worry and anxiety on their part, to where they can't sleep because who knows what's going to happen
if I fall asleep. You can turn them into a seeker of negative attention. If they have been kind of
abandoned by their parents and or their friends, they're kind of a loner. Nobody, you know,
they don't really have many friends. Negative attention is better than no attention at all.
And when demons are manifesting through me, everybody seems to care about me.
When they're not, nobody cares. So in an immature mind, what does that do?
You can turn them into that by overanalyzing and are you okay and calling them five times a day
and this and that. And pretty soon they're going, I've never had someone give me this much
attention in my lifetime. And then it starts, yeah, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. And then
all of a sudden the attention starts going away and they like the attention. What are they
going to do? They're going to find a way to get the attention back. So we have to be careful of that.
By overanalyze number two there, I'm talking about working through your questions, your personal.
As the person doing it, your questions, your struggles, your possible negative perceptions,
your concerns, the person you were doing deliverance with, you start talking these things
through with them. Do not do that. That will not help them. You find someone, you can
talk that through. I'm not saying don't talk that through, but you don't talk that through
with the person you're doing deliverance with. Well, you know, when this happened, I just didn't
know what to think. And I started wondering, you know, this could be something that we can't
even take care of, but I know, but wait a second, no, God is capable. You are going to traumatize
them. They need to hear faith, reassurance, encouragement, and truth only. They don't
need to hear your doubts and your fears. And I was wondering this. And don't wonder it over with them.
Make sure they understand self-deliverance. God removes demons in what I call layers,
pending upon what the situation is and how God wants to do it. They may come out in layers,
so they need to understand self-deliverance, which basically means this. Well, what if I'm
at home and something starts manifesting? Do something about it. You. Oh, what would I do?
Now you need to make sure they understand self-deliverance. Because in reality,
I have more authority over my body than you do.
You have less authority than me. They need to understand they are the king of their castle.
They're the Lord of their temple with the Holy Spirit. And if something starts manifesting, and
there's nobody around, you put on your boxing gloves and deal with it. And I'll tell you how to do it.
And you can do it because they that believe will cast out demons. Are you a believer? Yes.
Well, then you can do this. And you encourage them, give them some instruction. Because what's
real is nobody can be there all the time. It doesn't happen. It just, that's a rarity.
So they have to learn how to fight themself. They may not be totally free. Chances are good,
they're not. So they have to learn how to fight themself. Number page four, letter D.
As a side thought, sometimes people can have difficulty with self-deliverance. Why?
There's four reasons there. Not only self-deliverance, but delivering of other,
helping other people get free. It comes back to those four almost every time.
Are they certain what the scripture says about it? Just like was said earlier,
while I was questioning whether or even had the authority to do this. See, that got you.
We have to know. And the only way we learn that is by trial and error and experience.
But we have to know what the scripture says about this and whether we have authority or not.
Number two, do we know who we are in Christ? That's why I always make that announcement
in the five things. Well, I can't use the word always because there's times I'm sure I don't.
But I will try to say, I am here in the name of Jesus. I am in covenant with my father.
And through the blood of Jesus, I have authority over you because of the blood
and through the words of my mouth and my face, I'm going to cast you out.
That is that right there. Who am I in Christ? Well, that's who I am.
So we both might as well know right now. Number three, letter C, are they living
James seven on a daily basis? If you're having problems getting a demon out,
are you still in willful sin someplace? Because if you are, they don't have to leave.
It says submit to God and resist that kingdom. Well, if you're clinging to that kingdom and not
really submitting to God, but you want the demon out, it won't work. It won't work that way.
That's a big one. Many times people who are not finding freedom aren't honest with themselves.
They're still playing some games. And the last one is also relatively big.
You may need to do some prayer and fasting to get it out. It's just something about prayer
and fasting increases our power. It just does. And it's those four. If a demon is not coming
out, you will find it in one of those four, whether it's self-deliverance or you're doing
deliverance. Letter E, if it wasn't addressed in the deliverance session, remember there's always a
reason the demons were there. It's good to find that reason if possible. Now, if it's generational,
you just cut it off and get rid of it and the Lord will teach them and sanctify them and work
with them. If it's a personal sin, then you need to deal with it if at all possible,
because there's a reason they got in. You can get them out, but if the reason
isn't dealt with, forgiven, put under the blood, they'll just go right back in.
And sometimes we figure that out. Sometimes they do. And top of page five, this is important.
They don't need our speculation because it can stir them in the wrong direction.
Well, you know, I was thinking, didn't your mom have a problem with this?
Yeah, she did. Well, then it would make sense then that that's what's going on. They don't need that.
They need to hear from God. You need to hear from God. There's nothing wrong with asking
questions. Did your mom have a problem with this? Hmm, it's interesting. But don't start
steering them that direction because that could be the furthest from the truth of what they need.
And the number two, the second part is the days following the deliverance session.
Check up on them. Make sure they're doing okay. Use wisdom. You want to encourage them. If it was a
traumatic thing, they're going to need more help. If it wasn't so traumatic, they just need
encouragement. You want to make sure you keep them on task or whatever you can. You know,
as far as are they filling their temple? Are they in the word? Are they in praise
and worship? Are they doing spiritual things that will help them? There is some
aftercare and the whole thing is based on empathy.
Which the old European culture by and large isn't the best at.
And we can all get better at that one.